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Laramie police ticket 13-year-old girls for throwing french fries

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By MEAD GRUVER
Associated Press writer

Saturday, February 2, 2008 2:05 AM MST

LARAMIE -- Don't even think about starting a food fight.

Police say that's the message they hope to get across to Laramie Junior High School students by citing three 13-year-old girls for "hurling missiles," an adult crime under city ordinances.

The girls allegedly threw french fries during lunchtime two weeks ago.

Police Chief Bob Deutsch said that the day before the incident, school officials who'd heard rumors of a food fight held an assembly in which Principal Steve Hoff and police officer Al Rich warned all of the students: If you throw food, prepare to suffer the consequences.

"They saw it as really the planning of a riot, when you think about it," Deutsch said.

He said the girls decided to test the warning nonetheless.

"It wasn't a spontaneous thing -- a couple of kids giggling, throwing a french fry at each other," Deutsch said. "They intended on getting everybody involved in this and starting something that no doubt would have the potential of getting out of control."

Deutsch said the girls deserved citations for deliberately flouting the principal and school police officer, as well as for not considering that someone could get hurt.

"These things can degenerate into something a lot more harmful than simply throwing food," he said. "At what point does somebody get hit with a piece of food and respond with a tray, and fists, and knees, and glasses, and cell phones and everything else?"

But others said police and school officials went overboard.

"It certainly seems that this was an overreaction to a situation that could have been handled differently," said Linda Burt, Wyoming director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

And one parent said she's upset because her daughter wouldn't have gotten in trouble had she not gone to the principal and admitted throwing a french fry.

"It upsets me that the chief says that she wasn't responsible, or accountable, when she was the one who actually told on herself," Janice Isom said.

Isom said she also was upset that the school didn't call her or her husband. She said they found out through the mother of one of her daughter's friends. She said they drove to the school, but by then police had issued a ticket and the school had issued a three-day suspension.

"The ticket is something that's on her record now. I think that's a bit much for a french fry. They were not inciting a riot as the police chief says they were," Isom said.

Sue Ibarra, a mother of another of the girls, said the citation "might have been a little over the top ... when you think it was french fries."

But Ibarra, who is chairwoman of the school board, stood by the school's decisions. Court documents on Thursday showed that her daughter was the only one who had paid the $60 fine.

"The students involved had been warned the day before," Ibarra said. "And my daughter still chose to push it to see if it actually was going to happen. It obviously did and she had to pay the consequences, and it's been a good living lesson for her."

Parents of the third girl did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment.


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Comments to this story.

Swen Swenson wrote on Feb 2, 2008 6:00 AM:

" Well they certainly sent a message. Perhaps next time they'll throw 'freedom fries', hm? "

BULL wrote on Feb 2, 2008 6:53 AM:

" Makes people wonder how kids are raised now days. Looks like they need to start over. "

Tom wrote on Feb 2, 2008 8:21 AM:

" Ha ha ha ha ha the planning of a riot,a couple of kids giggling, throwing a french fry at each other,hurling missiles, you can't make this stuff up. I almost NEVER agree with the ACLU, 'cept maybe this time. "

profit wrote on Feb 2, 2008 9:36 AM:

" Wow, this must be an incompetent principal. I think detentions would be in order, but to call in the police seems like overkill. Or are Jr High School girls more menacing than they were in my day? Food for thought (pun intended). "

LaDene Culver wrote on Feb 2, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Ibarra and her daughter are to be commended for taking responsiblity for the young woman's actions. The other two girls' and their parents are coming up with excuses why their girls are not responsible. If you confess your guilt, it doesn't make you any less guiltly, but it should mitigate the punishment. Food fights always start out harmless, but at the minimum there is staff time expended to clean up the mess, and in worse cases, there are injuries and property damage. "

Ronald M. wrote on Feb 2, 2008 8:13 PM:

" Imagine that.... 13-year-old people, acting like kids. "

honcho wrote on Feb 3, 2008 2:16 PM:

" I don't know what the proper sanction should be -- that will be decided soon. But the people who say "it was just a french fry" are wrong. This was a blatant and purposeful breach of discipline, and if you don't have discipline in a school you can't teach. "

Shame on LPD wrote on Feb 3, 2008 11:41 PM:

" It's too bad that the war between the county attorney and the LPD caused these girls to have a record . . . if the LPD had followed the city council's directive, the tickets would have been written into juvenile court instead of municiple, and they could have been offered diversion and no record whatsoever. Shame Shame LPD. Stop your power trips trying to prove to Bohling that you know better...you don't. Neither does the district. Get over your egos and let the people who know how to work with kids handle it. "

biz as usual wrote on Feb 4, 2008 8:59 AM:

" Agree with shame on LPD, but must add that Bohling the snake needs to back off, and the 3 male leaders at LJH need to grow a backbone. NOW it's national news. They treat this as if it was Laramie youth baseball. The losers here are the kids. Bring back the paddle and the dunce cap,,,,,for the adults. "

Baller wrote on Feb 4, 2008 10:16 AM:

" The police chief said he saw it as "really the planning of a riot." Ha! This guy is a joke! The 13 year old girls should certainly be punished, but the excessive police procedure should teach us a lesson as adults. We need to grow up and punish our kids, not call the cops when KIDS get a little out of control. "

WW wrote on Feb 4, 2008 11:18 AM:

" Cudo's to Mrs. Ibarra. Thanks for making your daughter accountable for her actions! I bet she won't do it again. And to H--- with the ACLU. They are one of the reason's we can't punish our kids, and why we are such a litigating society! And LaDene's comments are right on! One of my kids was involved with one of those "food fights" at LJHS some years back, and a fight started out of it later on after school, not to mention the time, waste, and headaches it caused to clean up the mess! When I got wind of it, I ASSURE you my kid NEVER got involved with such and incident ever again! And I'm not just talking about grounding either! "

BELLSTOWN wrote on Feb 4, 2008 12:39 PM:

" Food fights are not harmless. My tax dollars pay in part for school lunches, I don't want to see them go to waste, literally. Instead of crying about the consequences, the parents should have taught their daughters respect for the property of others, and gratefulness to have food. Period. However, the ticket was a little extreme and misses the point of teaching these girls a lesson. Instead of the ticket, I would suggest that the girls clean the cafeteria for a week, after school hours. Their parents can help, if the work isn't "fit" for their spoiled 13 year olds. "

Bring Back Paddle wrote on Feb 4, 2008 12:49 PM:

" Bring back Corporal Punishment, but realize that it is futile if not backed at home. We can't let students run the schools. If the administrators and the teachers are unable to have control, the whole educational process can't work effectively. "

GrayFox wrote on Feb 4, 2008 1:02 PM:

" Yeah, it was only a food fight or a few fries. Whatever, right. No, not so much. They were warned not to do what they did, or face the consequences. Well, they're now facing the consequences. "

M-16 wrote on Feb 4, 2008 1:16 PM:

" A ticket? That's it? For inciting a riot such as this, they should have been rounded up and shot by the National Guard. How soft we have grown since Kent State. Today it's french fries. Tomorrow... plastic cups and clumps of grass. Time to squash this insurrection once and for all. "

Mach1 wrote on Feb 4, 2008 1:37 PM:

" When I was a teenager in the 70's, the worst we did was take drugs, drag race drunk through town, and get in fights. Now kids are actually throwing french fries in the cafeteria? What has this world come to? No morals these days, it seems. "

Road Warrior wrote on Feb 4, 2008 1:57 PM:

" These kids need to be punished harshly. Zero tolerance for anything. How else will they learn that the people in charge are ALWAYS right. People in charge never make mistakes. People in charge are perfect and subordinates should do as they are told. Order, compliance, absolute authority...these are the priciples that make America great. Trust us, we know what we are doing.

-the Boss

"

Tire of the social misconduct wrote on Feb 4, 2008 4:08 PM:

" We are a society that mutually agreed long ago to create and follow rules. We each do this voluntarily for the mutual safety and comfort of all. These children were warned and they failed to cease their behavior. Just like an offender resisting the police and the whining about being tazed. The first inappropriate act begat the consequences that followed. "

Colleen wrote on Feb 4, 2008 4:58 PM:

" Those police should have given the principal a ticket for being such a baby and wasting their time. That's like calling 9-1-1 when your kid doesn't do his chores. Get control of your own school, there buddy. Or go back to selling encyclopedias. "

curious wrote on Feb 4, 2008 5:08 PM:

" The same week at the same junior high school two girls were depantsed after school while waiting for a bus. One was filmed on a camera phone. What ever became of their attackers? Were these sexual attacks on girls less important than the failed food fight? Has this been posted in any news articles? "

Jeff9 wrote on Feb 4, 2008 7:53 PM:

" Consider re-locating to Wyoming. Where the kids are bored, the police are more bored, and the police are really stinkin' bored. Bring your bail money. "

Shame on LPD wrote on Feb 4, 2008 7:59 PM:

" To all you folks who think the kids should be locked up: kids these are smarter than we were. They know that sometimes adults exhibit authority just to prove who is boss. They expect adults to treat them with respect, then they will learn to reciprocate the same. Unfortunately, the Laramie Junior High and the LPD treat kids as losers not worthy of respect. .. so of course the kids don't reciprocate. Kids don't learn to respect adults by being treated like dirt and forced to face consequences not connected to their behavior...do you? The administration at LJHS has spent so much time around kids that they are acting like them and failing to role model appropriate ways to settle disputes. Instead, they puff up their chests and prove who is bigger and badder . . . every time. "

Get a grip wrote on Feb 4, 2008 9:17 PM:

" Im so proud to be from laramie, when we were talking to a man in an elevator in California we told him where we were from, he responded with " Oh thats were that guy was killed" I can only imagine what he would say now, "Oh thats where that guy was killed, and where that girl was arrested for throwing a french fry." "

Corporal Punishment wrote on Feb 4, 2008 11:10 PM:

" I haven't gone anywhere, Parents and teachers are just afraid! "

Inarguable Truth wrote on Feb 5, 2008 2:33 AM:

" This wasn't just breaking the rules, it was flauting rules in place for a very good reason. A large group of immature children unable to censor themselves getting caught up in a food fight will only lead to fist fights, assault with silverware, and possibly worse depending on the resident gang population.

I suppose the crybaby parents prefer their child come home wounded... or sarcasm aside, perhaps they REALLY do because they think they can get rich quick with a lawsuit... at the cost of an injured child.

Break the rules, pay the price, so shut up and grow up. "

turn-up-the-volume wrote on Feb 5, 2008 4:51 AM:

" Kudos there M-16 and Mach 1. Ya'll really made my day.

As for the poster fretting over the 'wasted food'. What's the diff, when the school just throws it out anyway? "

Nanny State wrote on Feb 5, 2008 5:41 AM:

" Welcome to POLICE STATE USA. All your freedoms are belong to us. "

old fashion wrote on Feb 5, 2008 5:42 AM:

" When the rules state "don't throw food"---it means don't throw food.
Kids now days don't want any rules to go by---and they thought the 60's creatred "free spirits"--unbelievable. "

David wrote on Feb 5, 2008 6:35 AM:

" My God what have we become when we need to call the Cops for 3 teenage girls throwing fries. That would be like calling the Army to deal with an Ant Problem at a picnic. Yes they could have given the girls in school supension for a day but to call the Cops that is waste of tax payer money. "

Scott wrote on Feb 5, 2008 7:16 AM:

" I think they should eliminate all school sports for fear of starting riots.... "

HongKongCharlie wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Actions have consequences. What most of the posters seemed to have missed. There is a full time policeman stationed in the school.

The kids were talking about a coming food fight, the policeman picked up on the talk. The school authorities warned the students not to do same.

The 13 year olds were testing authority, it's part of kids job description especially at this age. Been there done that.

Did the policeman over react? Absolutely!! as one poster opined, juvenile courts would have been the logical and adult way to handle the problem.

Police need to step down a notch below the god level. "

grumpy wrote on Feb 5, 2008 9:44 AM:

" 'Hurling missiles', 'adult crimes'? Gimme a break; one detention ought to cover this quite well. No malicious intent, and no possibility of injury.

By the way, law is not about 'sending messages'; law is about retribution for real harmful actions. The message here inculcates only ridicule and resentment for the makers and 'enforcers' of the law.

Case dismissed with prejudice. "

Faryn wrote on Feb 5, 2008 9:55 AM:

" I went to laramie junior high....the "authority figures" at that school really need to get a clue. looks like they're as stupid now as they were when i went there. laramie cops don't have anything else to do....so thanks to the junior high for keeping them busy. what ever happened to coming in after school to help the janitors clean up for a week? that's how things were when i was 13. but then again i'm not sure french fries were considered "missles" when i was 13 either. "

About time wrote on Feb 5, 2008 10:19 AM:

" I feel that if the kids were warned the day prior, and they still chose to do what they did their punishment was to light!! Talk about a total disrespect to the school staff and law enforcement. The Law was set the day prior and is in the town ordenance and the kids chose to break them. I think the parents schould of been cited for being stupid in not raising their kids to RESPECT the people in charge of protecting them. French fries now but wahts next, BULLETS. "

Wy_oldtimer wrote on Feb 5, 2008 10:46 AM:

" mis·sile /ˈmɪsəl / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mis-uhl ]
–noun
1. an object or weapon for throwing, hurling, or shooting, as a stone, bullet, or arrow.
2. guided missile.
3. ballistic missile.
–adjective
4. capable of being thrown, hurled, or shot, as from the hand or a gun.
5. used or designed for discharging missiles.

Good thing no one threw a milk carton that might have burst open or the girls I am sure would have been charged with the felonious launching of an explosive device
Sad day in society when a soft mushy French fry is classified as a weapon.
Hmm. Wonder if one of the food fights we had in college back in the 60's would today be chargable as inciting violence and civil disobedience and assult with deadly weapons beecause as I recall some one jurled a banana "

sparty76 wrote on Feb 5, 2008 10:50 AM:

" I think everyone needs to step back from this one. The punishment was excesssive and those of you who disagree need to turn yourself in to the police for appropiate punishment the next time you run a red light or exceed the speed limit. Those are laws that you break often knowingly. "

shakingmyhead wrote on Feb 5, 2008 11:05 AM:

" Hard to believe the principal and police chief rationalized their actions the way they did with a straight face. I guess you can rationalize anything if you try hard enough. I think the reality is that they know how idiotic their actions appear to everyone else. "

Parent wrote on Feb 5, 2008 11:46 AM:

" Wrong was done by these ill mannered kids. The issue has been well and fully documented now, and the rest will fall into place. Realize also that educators, police and others in public positions of responsibility are very frequently subject to not only public and media scrutiny, but also law suites. I will never fault an educator for calling the policy for help in dealing with unruly students. Their careers and good names are on the line for peoples poorly raised brats (soon to be out of control young adults if given the chance and no real parenting takes place to head it off).
"

Good for you, Sue wrote on Feb 5, 2008 11:46 AM:

" I would of been that parent. Had this been my child, she would be paying the fine (not me) and been punished at home as well as taken whatever punishment that the school handed out. I realize it was only a french fry but it is the idea that a child challenged authority. What would these children learn if they were warned and continued to do the crime and were let off without consiquences??? That is what creates spoiled, unruley adults. Whether its in the home or on a larger scale. Rules weren't made to be broken, they were made for the safety of others. This could've been a riot but most kids didn't challenge the rule. Kudos to the school for following through. "

taste matters wrote on Feb 5, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Obviously not many of you have eaten the school districts food. If you have ever eaten in their schools you would know that those french fries were probably still frozen. Harmless fries now? And on top of that the school is too cheap to pay for quality so they were more than likely not ripe or cut. So unless things have changed from when my kids went there, two years ago. These weren't just french fries, they were frozen, rock hard, whole potatoes---Harmless, i don't think so... "

so proud of ACSD#1 wrote on Feb 5, 2008 12:21 PM:

" Remember this when it comes time to send your high school graduate to Laramie to attend UW or if you'd ever consider moving here to take a job.

If you think it's bad in the junior high, you should see how they "track" high school kids as well as college students. Get your bail money ready parents! "

Parent Believer in Dicipline wrote on Feb 5, 2008 1:06 PM:

" I don't think most of you really appreciate what the schools are trying to do to prevent misbehavior among students now days. Too many times the parents are blind to their childrens guilt and refuse to admit when there is something wrong. Note: "Principal Steve Hoff and police officer Al Rich warned all of the students: If you throw food, prepare to suffer the consequences." I raised 2 adopted children myself. Believe me they had their challenges, but nothing that we weren't able to work out when the we the parents and the school worked together. The message needs to get out to kids that they can't play the parents against the school when everyone is working closely together to prevent problems. I think the girls deserved just what they got.
"

Lacidar wrote on Feb 5, 2008 1:23 PM:

" I believe some of you are missing the point of the whole thing. The point is that these kids were told NOT to do it. Working in public education, you see this kind of thing all the time. Kids thumbing their nose at authority, and then whining when they have to suffer the consequences. Of course it's obvious where they learn that behavior. Did anyone ever stop to think that all these girls had to do was what they were asked to do? The administration had to follow through, or it sends a message of tolerance for this behavior. The old saying that it's all fun until someone loses an eye seems to be in play here. What if one of those "missiles" had mistakenly hit someone in the eye? Then what? What if your kid got hurt? Would you say that it was just kids acting like kids? Hell no! You'd be calling for the heads of the adminstrators for not controlling their students. It's a no win situation for them. Some of you are incredible. This is why it is so tough to teach these days. Kids totally defy rules and authority and the parents whine louder than the kids about how unfair it is. I challenge you to walk down the hall of the middle or high school hall and hear what the kids DO get away with. The language, the disrespect, the violence, and the harassment is incredible. Let's not even pretend that these girls are so innocent. They finally got caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing. i wonder what other crap they have gotten away with. "sparty76" why is it excessive? It's not like the dollar amount was just some random number dreamed up by the cops. It is a law on the books. Deal with it. "

Reality Check wrote on Feb 5, 2008 2:11 PM:

" Those who say " i went to that school" or" it wasn't like that when I went to school" need a reality check. WW wrote on Feb 4, 2008 11:18 AM that htis has happened at that school in the past and a fight insued... Precidence was set. Schools are not the same anymore... Society isn't the same. We lock our cars, our homes, people sue for every reason under the sun, and very few take responsibility for their own actions. Schools have police/resource officers for a reason, too many adult crimes were happening in Middle and High schools. After Columbine dozens of schools in Florida alone reported finding knives, guns, weapons of varying types found not only in the high school but also Middle and elementaries. When do you stop ignoring the facts - it is out there every day, wake up. The rules were set, the warning was reminded, the rules were broken. The only cival liberties violated would've been those inocent that could've been hurt would've been those of the kids hurt as result of the colateral effects. Food or worse, I'd be upset if my child came home with chocolate milk on her/his clothes... not to say how the parents of Columbine had to deal with the Blood and sorrow.
Change with the times... or fall prey to them. "

Jon wrote on Feb 5, 2008 2:28 PM:

" I think this is a good demonstration of how school administrators have allowed themselves to become powerless and weak.
Yes, they shouldn't have done it.
Yes, they were warned in advance.

But a principal who calls in the police to issue citations for something like this has clearly lost all ability to take command of anything.

In some ways, this is also a reflection on the fact that society doesn't back the administrator, so it is safer for him to have the cops deal with his problems than to deal with them himself. "

A well-regulated lunchroom wrote on Feb 5, 2008 2:49 PM:

" A few more thoughts to munch on:

1. The West wasn't won with a registered french fry.

2. When french fries are outlawed, only outlaws will have french fries.

3. You won't get my french fry until you pull it from my cold, greasy fingers.

4. First they came for my french fries; then they came for my onion rings; finally they came for my burgers and no one was left to help me.

5. French fries don't kill people; the high cholesterol and salt kill people.

6. Guy holds up someone with a gun and adds, "you want fries with that?"

"

Frenk wrote on Feb 5, 2008 3:29 PM:

" The problem is not that children have no rules, but that adults have lost all sense of proportion.

We now either:
1) have absolutely no rules
or
2) charge children with adult crimes for acts that a generation ago would have been dealt with by the school principal.

What happened to sensible and proportionate punishment? "

profit wrote on Feb 5, 2008 3:30 PM:

" Whatever happened to detentions for noncompliance? Calling the police for throwing french fries is ridiculous. "

qerq wrote on Feb 5, 2008 4:05 PM:

" Where was homeland security, can't believe the priciple and school officer didn't call them in, I mean this could have started a international food fight.

The real reason they where suspended is "Deutsch said the girls deserved citations for deliberately flouting the principal and school police officer",

The principle and school officer
feeling were hurt becuase they were flouted, can't be doing that. "

Queener wrote on Feb 5, 2008 5:13 PM:

" A $60 fine sounds like a darned good life lesson to me. "

somuchmore wrote on Feb 5, 2008 11:15 PM:

" There is so much more to this story. For those of you that haven't been watching, there is an all out war in Laramie relating to officers in the schools, information sharing, and officers lobbying for more power over outcomes of juvenile law breakers. The ACLU is working hard to keep officers and school administrators from profiling and labeling kids, while the opposite side is arguing for school safety issues. This incident is a great example of the push for authority and power over the kids. Read the archives in the boomerang if you want to follow the story....it's all related. "

Get a REAL clue wrote on Feb 6, 2008 1:29 AM:

" It appears not many of you have ever had to work as a staff member at a middle school. KIds who do this kind of stuff are typically the same ones who misbehave in a myriad of other ways as well, from backtalking teachers to name calling teachers and making up stories about teachers. I know - I've been there. When you have a whole cafeteria of these junior high kids, things can get out of control in less than 30 seconds. The reason we have all the problems we have in our society today is because no one (least of all parents) wants to issue due consequences. Respect and responsibility are essential for a free society I When children OR adults frivolously challange appropriate authority, stiff consequences ARE appropriate. Hopefully, they will learn now, when it's french fries, before they decide to street race and kill somebody -- or themselves! It's not the french fry, it the challenge of appropriate authority. Oh - yes, a principal does have the right to establish such rules. "

Meee2 wrote on Feb 6, 2008 4:09 AM:

" I think that the punishment should be that the kids should have to Clean the cafeteria for a week. Oh & their parents too for Not Raising them better..(^_^) "

kat wrote on Feb 6, 2008 6:28 AM:

" I've worked in the public schools and no longer care to go there. The disrespect the kids show is unbelievable. The way the principals cower is atrocious. I'm glad to see the police called. It should happen more often. I've been cursed at, bullied, and threatened in schools by students. And nothing is ever done about it. I've seen firsthand, violent situations that would call for citations if the incident occurred in public, but since it's in school, oh well, let's just blame the teachers or any other adult instead of making the ornery kid take responsibility.
Yeah, just a french fry, but actually, it was a planned disruption of the educational process. What about the other kids' rights to an education? "

the last coyote wrote on Feb 6, 2008 8:36 AM:

" WAY TO GO!

Now maybe we can try to go after the drug dealers in my neighborhood. I know that's a big step, but I think you just might be ready...

I am Jack's wasted tax doller... "

whatsup wrote on Feb 6, 2008 9:06 AM:

" This is a truly amazing story. Bloggers have somehow linked this incident to french fries and freedom. It's not about french fries, it is about behavior. It's not about freedom it is about respect. Young adults don't seem to have respect for authority or even for each other and certainly not for teachers or school officials. Freedom in this country allows you to do what is best for you. It doesn't mean you can do any thing you want. "

animal house wrote on Feb 6, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Damn kids anyway - I say hang em high. How dare they flout authority. How DARE THEY??? "

Go Pokes! wrote on Feb 6, 2008 10:34 AM:

" Until we have parents and kids that take responsibility for their actions, then the schools hands are tied. Being a teacher, I feel that the actions of the administrators were correct. Granted it was a French fry, but after being told specifically the consequence, then the student has to deal with it. Parents have tied the schools hands in many disipline issues. Some kids are just rotten due to no authority in the home. If the 60's there wasn't a big issue because there was more parental control. Today I think that in many households the kids have all the authority. To many kids getting detention is no big deal because parents don't make it a big deal. Kids are definitely disrespectful now days. I love the back in my days comments. It is not the same. I teach in an elementary school and coach high school football and wrestling and Jr. High wrestling so I get to see kids at all levels and I can tell you that things are not the same as they used to be and I graduated in 1994, not that long ago. The civil liberties and freedom speakers on this post need a reality check. I would love for them to spend just one week in a school and I bet your perceptions would definitely change. Or better yet, let them substitute for that week and let them see how the kids really behave. "

oldmunchkin wrote on Feb 6, 2008 10:46 AM:

" While I have to agree the girls should not have disobeyed a direct order for the administration, I have serious problems with giving these kids a juvenile record for throwing french fries! For cat's sake, we did things in school that were completely illegal, and didn't get arrested for them. It was considered all part of growing up, back when life was kind of normal and not so "cop happy"! "

Go Pokes! wrote on Feb 6, 2008 11:14 AM:

" Oldmunchkin:

I think that parents and society and their constant whining and not backing teachers and administrators is the cause. For being professionals, we definitley aren't treated like it by parents or others who think that schools aren't doing their jobs. Parents have every right to complain about test scores and state standards. But behavior of a child should be dealt with with parent involvement, not whining about it not being fair. I also think that most kids are generally well behaved, but it the other 10 percent that make it the way it is. Those are the ones I am talking about. And some people want schools to raise their children instead of doing it themselves. "

Lacidar wrote on Feb 6, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Here's a scenario for all you anti-discipline people. You go to work tomorrow. Your boss tells you to absolutely not do something or you will be fired. You show up the next day and do exactly what he told you not to do. You get fired. I suppose you would then call the ACLU and tell them you were treated unfairly by your evil old boss. The deal is we cannot "fire" kids from school. You try to give them detention...they don't show up. Suspend them...they love it. Yeah!!! no school for me!!! What's the consequence? You can't flunk the kid for not doing his work or the No Child Left Behind people get you fired for not meeting AYP. The kids know the system. It's the tail wagging the dog. And the school's hands are tied. I guarantee those people who whine the loudest when their kids get in trouble, saying the school is going overboard on discipline. They are also the one's who whine the loudest if some other student does something to their child. Then they say that the schools are unsafe and are not doing enough to control the kids. They are hypocrites who abuse the system every chance they get and never assume any responsibility for their own kids actions.

I agree with "Go Pokes". I dare you to visit the school with your kid. Walk through a week's worth of classes with them and see what teacher's have to deal with. All of you that say "that's not how it was when I was a kid" are right. It is not the same. There are still many, many great kids in this world. But think about the kids when you were in school who always bucked the system, caused trouble, got sent to the principal (maybe it was you). Now multiply that number times 10 or 20 and you might get an idea of what it is like to teach in a classroom of today. And the trouble makers are younger than ever. I have taught for 10 years and have been: told by students to F*** off, called names, cussed at, hit, yelled at, called old, stupid, etc. It usually ends up in a parent meeting where either the parent acts just like their kid towards me or the kid treats the parent the same way they treated me. Please explain to me where this is the school's fault. It all comes back to parenting, and a lot of today's "parents" are failing horribly. "

HS Senior wrote on Feb 6, 2008 12:02 PM:

" oldmunchkin, Things have gotten this way since Columbine and other such incidents. This in combination with our sue happy society has created the situation that we are now in today. I think that a juvenile record that will go away at age 18 and a $60 fine for each teenager to pay are pretty good incentives for these students to clean up their act, teach them a strong life lesson and serve as an example to others that would also premeditate such disobediance of authority. Besides, I do not like the idea of having someone else's food hit me while I am eating and reading for my next classes. What about my rights too? "

glad i dont live in laramie wrote on Feb 6, 2008 12:15 PM:

" those parents that see nothing wrong with excessive punishment are the same ones that dont understand how things like columbine happen... "

anonymous wrote on Feb 6, 2008 1:44 PM:

" Ok, 3 girls only one punished. and the only reason anyone knew was b/c the one ratted herself out. How many fries were thrown? and wow someone went thru with a big broom and swept the whole floor. I'm sure it was easier than scraping the gum off the bottoms of the tables "

mike1 wrote on Feb 6, 2008 1:48 PM:

" After Columbine the weakest member of every police force in America was posted to the home town high school or junior high school, and called a 'school resource officer'. The theory was that the officers were going to protect our kids from Columbine-like disasters. Of course that is not what happened. Of course, what the cops got involved in was routine school discipline.
The teachers who allow policemen to take over routine school discipline are a bunch of spineless wimps and are teaching the wrong lesson. The cops who are stationed at the schools are little more than 'hall monitors' with badges and guns. The whole bunch of them would be ashamed of themselves if they ahd any sense. "

thgopokes wrote on Feb 6, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Kudos to the authorities involved, Now start locking up the little "Angles" and their male counter parts for indecent exposure the way they dress. I for one am totally sick and tired of seen these kids with holy pants so far down their hips that we have to look at there underware and backsides. Then move on the the "Wood Shed" for thier foul mouth lippyness, of coarse what do I expect, they have no respect for themselves so why should they have any respect for anyone else? However, having vented on the faults of most of thse upcoming generation, we can be very proud of the 2 out of 100 that take care of buisness and show respect for elders, still hold the door for the elderly or women. "

profit wrote on Feb 6, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Pokes, detention fits the crime. Are you really willing to stand on the norm of calling the police for every incident of noncompliance? Jr High kids are a pain in the butt. It's the surging hormone thing. Rebelling is part of it. I've said in the past that if kids never went thru adolescence, we'd want them to stay home forever. Natural consequences are the best. Calling the police makes the adults look stupid and sends the message that they have lost control. The principal should look for another line of work. I've worked with adolescents in a therapeutic setting and one can manage behaviors such as noncompliance without calling in the law. "

amazed wrote on Feb 6, 2008 6:44 PM:

" I applaud those of you who support the principal and police. As for the rest of you, YOU caused this problem!. When I was a kid, the rule was: If you get into trouble at school, you canm guarantee that you are in BIG trouble when Mom amd Dad find out. But too many people my generation have been raised that you have to reason with your children, and they have "rights." You've spoiled your children and refused to support the educators you use as a baby-sitting service; you've ruined the juvenile justice system, forcing the state to bring more and more things into the adult system. My siblings and I DO NOT spend time at school over our kids' behaviour, because we raise ours the way we were raised.
That is not to say that we didn't get into trouble, or that my kids don't get into trouble. We knew, and mine know, where to draw the line. For instance, we were visited at assembly by the WHP and local police, who informed us in NO uncertain terms that our habit of cruising during the lunch hours, honking our horns, was at an end; "Horns are emergency equipment, not toys." The school added that anyone who got a ticket for exhibition honking would NOT be parking on school property. I can't think of ONE kid in my High School that didn't believe them. We cruised in silence the rest of the year; no one lost his parking privileges. AND NO PARENT COMPLAINED THAT THE SCHOOL WAS ABUSING US!!!
You can pretty much tell, by how my generation has turned out, which of us were raised to respect our fellow man. I have a doctorate, worked hard and retired before I turned 50. One of the "misunderstood little dears" in my class has had multiple husbands, children from men other than those to whom she was married, and multiple felony convictions for things like "borrowing" other peoples' credit cards. All the hours she spent in "detention" didn't have much impact, because her family always sided with her.
Babies are wired not to have abstract thought. They have to be taught, and their brains naturally mature into the ability to forsee consequences from their actions. By Junior High, they should have learned that openly challenging the police and the principal had consequences. If they have NOT learned it, it is because their bleeding-heart parents are always at school defending "the little darlings," rather than waiting at home to confiscate cell phones, Internet access, and (in a couple years) cars. The only electricity a child really needs is enough to power a reading lamp; the rest is a privilege and should be earned.
Dr. Phil preaches that "parent is also a verb"; and that you are not raising children, you are raising adults. If more parents took that position, the food fights wouldn't lead to drive-by shootings and block riots in Cell Block F. "

oldmunchkin wrote on Feb 6, 2008 8:21 PM:

" amazed, if you remember correctly, when we were kids, parents were still allowed to discipline their children without fear of Family Services accusing them of "abuse"! If you even try corporal discipline now, you can be arrested and have your children taken away! Now, we are supposed to "talk to" our children, "reason" with them, "ground" them, or "give them time outs" instead of busting their butts when they seriously need it. When you consider that, its surprising more kids aren't completely out of control.
I guess maybe I was one of those "misunderstood little dears" in that my parents always backed me up, if I was in the right. If I wasn't in the right, they let me suffer the consequences. BUT, those consequences never involved the police or a juvenile record for something as MINOR as a french fry throwing contest! (food fight my behind)
As to spending time at school with my kid...I did that on many occasions. No great surprise to me...the teachers kids usually acted much worse than the "regular" kids. I also watched teachers who had no idea how to teach teenagers, no idea how to interact with them, and NO idea how to keep them interested enough in the subject(s) to actually study.
Maybe this administrator needs to take a course in effectively dealing with people! "

pheleant wrote on Feb 6, 2008 8:53 PM:

" The authorities did the right thing. Have those of you that are opposed to this punishment ever spent any time in a school today. If you have not, SHUT UP! You have NO idea what you are talking about.

You think that this is no big deal. What happens when a food fight starts, and someone throws a fork? Many boys and girls know how to throw a pocket knife. A kid with a lunch from home has an apple or an orange. Those can hurt people.

You are right, it was just a french fry. Okay. Please tell me what they must throw before they get in trouble? How bad does someone have to get hurt before something is done?

I am pretty sure that they do not throw food at home. Maybe they do. Those of you who are mad and think this was just another case of over reacting, go take a long, hard look in the mirror. You are the PROBLEM! "

Youth Expert wrote on Feb 6, 2008 10:48 PM:

" I've run an after school program for 20 years and I have to say that most of you are missing the point and adding to the problem. Over the years I've learned a thing or two, the most important is this: When I hire a bunch of disciplinarians and authoritative staff to work in my program, the behavior problems quickly go through the roof. However, when I hire staff who get to know the kids, encourage them, and listen to them . . . they can control behavior through a simple dissapointing look across the room and there isn't a need for constant discipline. Classrooms are the same way. Teacher who are authoritarian control freaks end up with the worst behavior problems, but the teachers who care and get to know the kids and keep a positive attitude actual get the time to teach a thing or two. The problem with LJHS and the police officers is that same as most of the posters in this blog . . . the teachers and administrators see the kids and rotten problems and treat them in ways that the kids meet their expectations. If LJHS and the police would build positive relationships and show the kids that they care, the kids would have more respect and stop challenging them. Take a minute and read all the negative labels and stereotypes in this blog. . . now imagine that you are an 8th grader reading them...why would you ever respect and adult if they treated you that way? Guess that just have to show you that you're not boss, huh? Get a clue, people. "

MadMom wrote on Feb 7, 2008 12:34 AM:

" FOOD FIGHT! Animal House addition. This wasn't even close to that. Where were the teachers in the lunch room. Those kids should have been immediately removed from the room a warning given to the remainder. Send them to a room,call the parent, Parents GO TO SCHOOL when you are called. Parent,Teacher and Principal set down with said child hear both sides. Child defied the rules Punishment should be discussed and given right away. We are told as parents that we can't discipline our children it may hurt their little "egos" When one of my daughters had an issue I whomped their backside and the little "egos" too. I actually "Taught", my daughters from the time they could talk to respect their elders ,authority, I am very proud of them.I also made sure that when my girls were tempted to "go with the flow" that they knew exactly what the consequences were. They then had to make the decisions "was it worth the consequences when they got home. I made it clear they had a choice but they WOULD SUFFER the consequences of their actions. They usually made good decisions but they paid for the bad ones.We very rarely had to spank our children because we were involved in their lives, they usually told me everything that was going on ,much to their friends surprise.We treated our children with respect and they responded to us in kind. Mothers are having all of these babies with all of the different fathers they seem to think that they will lose their children if they say anything to contradict the what the child says.For heavens sake Grow Up! You made the choice to have these children and YOU are being unfair to THEM ! When you give them control of their own discipline. They can't discipline them selves because you as the PARENT did not teach them. So the Cops were called in "shame on you Mr Principal. But that is who these parents seem to think should teach their children discipline.and when the "little angels" get in trouble the parent steps back and Blames everyone but themselves. You are also not teaching them Self-respect or Pride in their achievements. You as parents are teaching your children to fail! Try to teach them how to Succeed,it is a bit harder but the rewards for Our Children are Great ! Love them, teach them, support them, send them in to the world prepared to deal with life,and all of the opportunities and obstacles. Pray to God to help guide you and take your children to service on Sunday give them a Higher Power, something Greater than themselves .I pray for all of the people who were involved in this sad affair because you all had the choice to make better decisions, The result could have turned out so much better. And for all of you "what If" folks teach your children respect and you wouldn't have to worry about "what if" because your child would have the right tools to make a better choice. Thank you for the opportunity to say my piece . "

kat wrote on Feb 7, 2008 7:02 AM:

" scroll back ya'll :
"Besides, I do not like the idea of having someone else's food hit me while I am eating and reading for my next classes. What about my rights too? "

I am so sick and tired of the ornery kids disrupting the education of others. I know many students that abhor school because of these disruptive few. Does that make me a control freak? Not at all. How about standing up for the rights of those kids that want to be at school, learning in an environment free of bullies and disruptions? Probably too boring for you. "

Profit wrote on Feb 7, 2008 7:50 AM:

" Well said, Expert. When I worked in an inpatient university psych unit, the amount of time kids spent in the Time Out room (a locked, padded cell with one window that the unit is no longer allowed to use to consequate noncompliance) correlated to the staff working. The authoritarian staff would make predictions like "that kid will be in Time Out before this shift is over" and sure enough, the kid would be hauled off to time out with the "seer" staff following, jaw set. Later, a study of the time out room found that time out usages directly correlated to staff working the unit. In the article above, the threat of consequence was not spelled out. What does "suffer the consequence" mean? When dealing with kids, I would make it clear what the expectations were and what the consequences would be for noncompliance and make it clear that it was their decision and made no difference in MY life. That was the key. Kids will show up for a power struggle and adults who like to flex their wounded egos are expert at setting them up. The principal will lose in this. I cannot imagine the courts wasting their time with these trumped up charges. "

Barry and Ann, parents wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:41 AM:

" Youth Expert, Rotten "parents" raised these rotten kids who will, if the course is not corrected, become rotten adults. We've got to break this cycle! "

John wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Find a principal who has a grip on their school. "

Jon T. wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:53 AM:

" Let's have the punishment fit the crime. Assign the girls to cleaning the lunch trays, wiping down the tables, cleaning the lunch room and taking out the trash. That would drive the point home more than giving these girls a police record. People have become so afraid of lawsuits that they fail to exercise their authority that comes with whatever position they hold. Common sense not over reacting. "

Lacidar wrote on Feb 7, 2008 12:27 PM:

" "oldmuchkin" I'm guessing when you were in school there weren't kids around the country killing dozens of their classmates and teachers with guns and bombs like there have been in the past ten years. You probably did not attend a school that had to have monthly lockdown drills or drug sniffing dogs come through once a month or more. I, for one, am grateful that we have school resource officers. I applaud a no tolerance attitude. When I read the 1st paragraph of your post I thought you sounded rational. Then off the deep end you went. You sound like someone who was never really interested in your own education and had many of the same opinions of your own teachers as you do of your child's teachers.

"Youth Expert" you probably work in an environment that loosely represents the actual school atmosphere. You have the luxury of time. You can sit down with the kids and get to know them. You are not under the constant pressure of meeting standards, NCLB, and AYP. You don't have 25-30 kids in your room at a time with strict restraints on what needs to be taught and how long you have to do it. You are not told that every kid (poor, rich, drug addict, gang banger, ESL, ELL, SPED, emotionally disabled, abused, ADD, ADHD, bipolar, ODD, gifted, average, low functioning, autistic, pregnant, poor self esteem, etc.) must succeed in your program or you will be put on remediation. I have taught them all, and I don't work at a high school. I would bet that in your after school program you have the luxury of keeping or not keeping students. I don't have that luxury, and unfortunately I don't have the time to "get to know" all my students the way I would like to. The affective part of school has been eliminated from the school atmosphere, and it is no fault of the teachers. You make it sound as if there should be some sort of "warming up period" at the beginning of each school year where we can all sit around and share life stories and experiences. Sorry! I have one day to introduce my students to the curriculum and my classroom rules. Then I spend the next 174 days TEACHING. And I still never seem to get as far as is needed. I believe that the students shoud come into my room with a respect for the teacher JUST BECAUSE I AM THE TEACHER. Then if I treat them fairly and honestly things should be fine. I shouldn't have to become their friend or buddy. "

concerned wrote on Feb 7, 2008 1:23 PM:

" police record over a french fry, talk about setting a child up before they can even get started in life Its tough enough. Sounds like money again is the real issue here, o.k how about in school fines leave it all in school. The money still got paid the consequence paid. The childs public record is not tarnished over a french fry. "

Lacidar wrote on Feb 7, 2008 1:34 PM:

" Nice work "profit". Now you're saying that the school administrators and police were incorrect in warning the students not to throw food. You and the "expert" are saying that the warning given is what caused this to happen. That they pulled the old reverse psychology on these girls and were setting them up to get a ticket. Probably part of some money making scheme that the city and the school district have cooked up. Or are you saying that if we just treated the kids as "inpatient psych ward" clients, things would be better. WOW! Just explain this to me, what would you do with a psych ward patient who threw food at the other patients? "

thgopokes wrote on Feb 7, 2008 1:53 PM:

" to Profit: no, not for every incident but yes there is a time to call the law in to deal with these little darlings for several reasons one of which would be that there is a time when they need to realize that there are consequences for there actions but at jr high if they haven't learned it by then it is a real struggle to teach that lesson. Another is to start a paper trail so that when enough of these sort of actions have been documented and verified the student then can be put into some sort of intervention, MRT Drug Court or some sort of Support Center. No more stars on the fore head for everything, pats on the back for every little thing that should be done in the first place. "

profit wrote on Feb 7, 2008 2:43 PM:

" Lacidar, are you saying that the JR high in question has gun toting gang bangers, drug sniffing dogs, monthly lockdowns? Get a grip. Throwing french fries is in no endangered others If you cannot see the difference between noncompliance and physical aggression, you should find another job. I don't appreciate this small incident being blown out of proportion by the school administration or those claiming to be teachers. "

the Rebel wrote on Feb 7, 2008 3:31 PM:

" Hang them high, is that not frontier justice. In the south the principal just paddles their rear end and makes them clean the cafeteria for a month. Better to make them hardened criminals than treat them as kids. But Wyoming law enforcement seems to be most competent at harassing kids and issuing traffic tickets than chasing real criminals "

HUH??? wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:00 PM:

" Bot you respect mongers do go on don't you?

If you want to gripe at today's parents then you really don't want to look back at yours. What a bunch of spineless wimps they raised. They sure didn't teach you the term "always question authority" did they? If you people would maybe stand up for yourselves in real life and quit yammering on so much on the internet you might not need the police to tell you every move to make and you might be able to think for yourselves. You people are too happy having the police and the governments live your lives for you. And you sure don't remember what it was like to be a kid (if you ever were) and test the waters a little.

Open your eyes. The schools and the police want you to think that kids are bad. If they can make you believe that then when the teachers fail they can say "the kids are evil and unlike us and dont want to learn". And the police can run around and save you from the nasty thirteen year old girls who could cause a complete break-down of modern society with a fist full of french fries. I mean if you had to choose between busting hardened criminals or ticketing school girls which would you choose.

Although I have heard that those scary prepubescent youths can be pretty deadly when they are armed with starchy finger foods.

You should also stop canonizing Ms. Ibarra. I would bet a weeks pay that Ibarra did not make her little girl pay that $60 fine out of her own pocket. Ms. Ibarra is just as mad as the other two girl's parents but just doesn't have the guts to say anything. She has to worry about protecting her reputation in the community and doesn't want to loose her step on that political ladder she is climbing. I believe this because no parent I know would allow their child to be crapped on unless they are selfish enough to worry about what they themselves might stand to loose.

I live in Laramie, I have kids here and know what goes on here. I am more worried about the known threat that the police and their thoughtless followers pose than the possible threat from some unruly teenagers. We need to let kids be kids and let them be punished like kids should be punished. We are stealing their childhood from them earlier every year without dragging them into the adult lack-of-justice system for childish pranks.

Wake up people. This is how Hitler started. Intimidate and control the youth in a society and all else will loose the hope to resist. "

expert wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:05 PM:

" lacidar, because teachers have attitudes like yours, kids rebel. Because you don't see caring about the kids as important as teaching them, you are failing. The reason there are so many restrictions on teachers (e.g. benchmarks, etc.) is because administrators who understand the importance of positive youth relationships can't figure out how to force you to take a positive approach. Your hard core expectations and belief that your job isn't to care about the kids is what leads to kids like these french fry throwers. If those french fry throwers were respected and treated descently by the adults in the school, they wouldn't have wanted to risk their positive relationships by disobeying. You can't force or expect respect, you have to model it and it will be reciprocated. Your long list of labels says volumes about how you view kids. Your anger and frustration is feeding your problem. Try, just for one day, having a little fun with the kids, respecting them, listening to them, and letting them know you care . . . you'll be amazed at how much easier your job is. Instead, if you continue modeling anger at those who have authority over you for their expectations, you will just continue the cycle and produce another classroom of kids who have learned that anger at authority is the adult way of dealing with life. "

expert wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:12 PM:

" Lacidar, take a moment and remember your favorite teachers from your childhood. I bet, first of all, that you felt like they cared about your success and weren't authoritarians. I also bet you learned more from the teachers that had relationships with you than you care to admit. Last but not least, remember when you used to plan practical jokes against your teachers. . . bet you planned them against the mean authoritarians. Now look at your own attitudes through your kids point of view . . . hmmm. I bet you are so used to living in a world where you are always right and no one is allowed to question you, that this type of self-analysis only angers you because you can't possibly be taking the wrong approach. "

Laramie Guy wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:30 PM:

" Ibarra's daughter will be fine because Ibarra cares and her daughter knows it. Her kid made a silly mistake, will face the consequences, but will move on knowing that her mother loves her, respects her, and wants her to be successfull as a young adult. Too bad she'll have a record. Too bad the cops will add her to their non-existent list, too bad the principals will watch her every move from now on and she'll have to behave better than the average kid to avoid further scutiny, and too bad her positive behaviors will go unnoticed and unrewarded because she's one of the "bad apples". I feel your fear and horror, Mrs. Ibarra. Just keep telling your daughter that she's a good person and hopefully she'll believe you instead of the adults at school. If she chooses to believe them, you are in for a long, long road. "

Doc wrote on Feb 7, 2008 9:37 PM:

" Sure glad they didn't eat them and puke them up then we would have been calling in a Hazmat team for hazardous waste cleanup!
New headlines:
This just in a Riot broke out in a school cafeteria where some 13 year olds were throwing french fries.......
Sort of puts them up with the Columbine shootings doesn't it?
Next thing you know we wont be able to chear at sporting events as we might be insinuating a RIIOT! Cmaon people get your heads out! "

LarryNWyo wrote on Feb 7, 2008 9:42 PM:

" Good lesson here, teach your children manners! Way back when I was at Dean Morgan, an Officer saw me throw a snowball, I learned about the "launching missle" law then! I was not cited, but I never threw another snowball! A good lesson in life! And I have taught my daughter from it and if she had ever thrown food, well, a $60 or 70 fine is not anything compared to what she is going to get at home! I taught her better! "

HUH??? wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:15 AM:

" Laramie Guy wake up. You are really full of it. Mrs. Ibarra is on the school board and is way more worried about how this affects her and trying to make the school system look right than what is best for her kid. If not she would be screaming as load as everyone else. "

profit wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:50 AM:

" Radical, What would you do if your kids threw food at your table, call the police? Let's say you warned them first and they threw food, anyway? Would you call the police? "

Lacidar wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:24 AM:

" I have no idea if there are gun toting gang bangers in said middle school. However, I did my teaching residency at LJHS some years ago and at that time there were kids who tried to be gangsters. If you think there are no gang influences in even LJHS, then you are obviously totally ignorant. I work at a school in Wyoming with a much smaller population than LJHS and we have issues with gangs. Take a look at the results of any behavior survey taken by the students and you will see the myriad of problems that teachers face. And yes every school in Wyoming has lockdown drills (mandated since Columbine). And yes drug sniffing dogs are randomly brought in to schools to check for drugs. Again you show your ignorance. Just sit back and let what is really happening with our youth pass you by and throw stones from the protection of your monitor. Don't get involved and try to help the teachers, just sit back and tell us we are the ones who are not trying to improve the future.

"Expert" you assume too much. I never said that it is not my job to care about my students. I care deeply about my students and those that I coach. I pray every night for their success. I know what you are saying is what you believe. But you obviously do not "live and work" in my world. I tell you that the affective (do you know what that is?) part of school has been removed due to governmental (NCLB) strictures. Your warm and fuzzy comments come from someone who does not have guidelines and deadlines to meet. I do not set them, they are set for me. What you fail to realize is that I have between 20-30 kids in my classroom every period. I have several educational bars set up for me and deadlines to get all of those kids over those bars. If I don't get them there, I suffer consequences and the kids who genuinely want to learn suffer. I take pride in getting the majority of my students over that bar. I celebrate with them every time we succeed. You and "profit" sit on the outside and post judjment based on what you think should or could happen. Have either of you ever been in charge of a public school classroom? Those labels you throw back in my face are reality not my opinion. It just shows what I have in my room every day and the issues I deal with on a daily basis, piled on top of my already huge workload. I'm sure it's nothing you can appreciate. I'll just let you say your piece and pray for you knowing that maybe one of the thousands of lives that I touch may help you later on in yours. And if you or profit really want to see what an ogre I am in the classroom, just let me know, and I'll post the letter that a "gang member I taught last year wrote, for me in his Language Arts class. "

Gram wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:28 AM:

" Seems to me that a suspension from school is a reward for inappropriate behavior. A term doing daily cleaning of the cafeteria might have been a better response. When I was in grade school, I was in more trouble when I got home than I had been at school. "

Questions wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:23 AM:

" I got to wondering, if there is no God in absolute authority, why should I obey any authorities? I have an equal opportunity to take control of as many people and situations as I can, just like everyone else has. See, I used to think there was an actual chain of authority. It wasn't exact as I remember it, but it was something close to this...God, government, leaders and bosses, teachers, parents, kids, pets and other natural surroundings! What is the answer a parent, teacher, principal or cop gives a kid when asked, 'who put you in charge and why do you get to make the rules?' If the top of the chain is not someone who is truly almighty, and if the answer isn't, 'because I have someone in authority over me," I don't think the kid has any other response besides, 'thank you for your service, I'll take over from here!' If there is no almighty God you can't really discourage anyone from any level of rebellion! Do we want God back in our schools yet? If not, why don't we just shut up and enjoy the chaos? We certainly can't blame principals or teachers, they're wrong no matter what decision they make these days...they should be pitied most of all. "

glad i dont live in laramie wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:35 AM:

" gee, if they told you that a parking ticket was punishable by 90 days in jail, would you still think "thats ok, cuz they warned us in advance...."
i would think most people would revolt.. but after reading the spineless wimps on this thread, i guess you would be ok with that.

this is just one more push by the system in the direction of the police state.

do you really need the police to protect you from yourselves?

if i were going to that school i would have thrown more than french fries to protest this lame power grab and weak principal.

since before i or any of you were ever born, questioning authority was and still is nessasary..... unless you like being a mindless sheep and dont mind giving up your rights untill you find yourself under the rule of some dude named adolf.

grow up people.

throwing a french fry and getting a $60 ticket is not an appropriate punishment.

what does tis tell the rest of the students?
it tells them the system is grasping at straws here, and they cant trust it anymore. so there is no reason to give respect anymore.

so fling on fellow french fry throwers.. im with you. "

OutragedinWyo wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:45 AM:

" LarryNWyo,

Seriously, you are a hypocrite. How can you say teach your children manners in the same sentence as you throwing a snowball. I am guessing that you have no manners.

Huh???;

You are absolutely right. This has nothing to do with Ibarra teaching her daughter a lesson and everything to do with her being in the public eye. How sad. Her daughter now has a record and how many people in the future are really going to believe that it is for throwing food.

Give me a break. The police chief needs to get his head out and take care of the more important issues going on in Laramie and quit trying to control our children.

"

kat wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:17 PM:

" No, I would not call the police for a food fight at home. But, if i was in the foodcourt at the mall and a food fight erupted, I would certainly want the police there to diffuse the situation and cite the perpetrators. It is unsanitary, rude, and just plain wrong. "

Barbara wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:53 PM:

" profit, These kids were not under the supervision of their own parents. The kids, who were at school, were under the supervision of public figures not related to the children. There is a distinct difference between the two with respect to authority and responsibilities. Had one of the educators had to restrain a resisting child the family may have decided to sue them or go to the media to smear their good name. Your argument is flawed. A juvenile record (goes away at 18) and a sixty dollar fine is a good lesson to all.
"

Mike wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM:

" Wow, good to see Laramie's finest really concentration on what counts. You know, it takes a good cop to realize the issues, but an even better cop to realize the non-issues. French fries, give me a break. Perhaps we should be cutting down on police force size if this is what consumes their time. "

JYN wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:13 PM:

" So MAYBE Ms. Ibarra is just keeping up appearances. Were she fighting the punishment, you'd all be complaining that she's teaching her daughter that their family is above the rules. Better the former than the latter. "

Scotsmann wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:42 PM:

" We need to teach these kids a lesson, first French fries, next they will want to join a terrorist cell!

Seriously, it's too bad the staff didn't feel competent to handle the situation. Maybe additional training in crisis management should be required of the principal and staff and possibly the police should be better informed in the enforcement of the law.

I'm quite amazed Laramie has a statute on the books for "hurling a missile"! A real trend setting city, I'll have to bring up this to our city commission, we are so short sighted! The best we might come up with is to site them for having too much fun!
"

creeping fascism wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:19 PM:

" this is mild compared to what bush and the tri lateral commission are secretly doing to usa civil rights wake up!! "

oldmunchkin wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Lacidar, you say you are a "caring teacher" but you believe in strict disciplinarian BS? That is a complete oxymoron! Thinking back, my favorite teachers were the ones who actually ENJOYED a joke or prank! The ones who were of the "school is work, so it should be sober and boring and NO FUN" are the ones I still avoid talking to, even after 26 years of being out of high school!
Funny thing here...you say "every school has lockdowns and drug sniffing dogs". I say BS!! The school my child graduated from in 2006 did NOT have any of those things when he left. (I can't speak for now, but I seriously doubt it happens.) For one thing, everyone here KNOWS everyone else. We know who MAY become a troublemaker, and stop it before it starts, if possible. We KNOW who uses or sells drugs, so if a drug bust happens at the school, those are the kids targeted, not the general population. Besides, we feel our police officers (such as they are) are better used by actually targeting crime, instead of "wannabe" crimes that ain't happened yet.
Think about it...If you already have a criminal record by the time you leave Jr. High, what the hell is the point of "obeying the rules"? You are already targeted by the cops, and you will be arrested before you get thru high school, even if its for something really stupid!
For cat's sake people! These were CHILDREN, being children, throwing french fries. They were NOT terrorists or hardened criminals starting a food fight in a prison...or were they? "

Just Visiting Wyoming wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:54 PM:

" Sad sad sad, in the time it took the ploice to difuse the situation and cite these girls, imagine how many really important laws were being ignored around town and could not be attende3d to because of this HUGE RIOT in the cafeteria of a middle school.... OMG and the worst part about it is that all of this is going to be ignored as well and it will continue to happen. "

Musetta wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:23 PM:

" About four years ago, my son, was involved in a "food fight" at his Maryland high school. The police were called in and threatened that my child was to be charged with "assault with a piece of cheese". A cheese cube. Really. He was suspended, which is ok with me, as a lesson learned. But to threaten "Juevenile Hall" for throwing one little cube of cheese? Luckily they didn't persist, but I was traumatized as my child had previously been in no trouble at his school and could have possibly served a punishment in which no way fit the crime. "

Missile Defense wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:04 PM:

" Speaking of setting examples, these kids should just be more like their teachers. Like that teacher in Cheyenne who was caught this week buying cocaine. Bad example. Maybe that teacher over in Rock Springs who was caught last year selling meth to his students. Wait, bad example. On second thought kids... stick to french fries. You're good kids compared to half the teachers in this raunchy state. "

DM wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:18 AM:

" We couls pass a new law!
Honor you mother and father
Don't bear false witness
Don't throw french fries
....................................etc....
"

Swen Swenson wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:18 AM:

" Good thing there wasn't intentional flatulence involved. They'd have been forced to call in the SWAT team. "

oldmunchkin wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:15 PM:

" Thank you for proving my point that you are totally out of touch with the youth of today, as well as with what goes on in the lives of today's children. It is not worth the time to argue with someone who knows absolutely nothing about today's youth or the schools they attend. How do you know that they do not have lockdowns or dogs brought in by the police. Have you ever bothered to ask. Maybe you should check the district policies concerning safety and canine inspections. The environment that the kids must endure (bullying, peer pressure, drugs, etc) is a reality. The vast majority of the kids are fantastic, but whether you want to believe it or not, there are many bad (some really bad) eggs in the schools. Then again I wouldn't expect a 40 something person to really KNOW the kids. I encourage you to volunteer in a school there in Laramie and REALLY get to know everyone. Take part in the drills. I lived and worked there for 5 years and then returned to do my teaching residency at LJHS. So I know exactly what kind of place Laramie is. I actually enjoyed my time there. And the teachers that I learned from were of the highest quality. Like me, they were disciplinarians who cared about every one of their students and their students' success. So it is possible. I'm done talking to you now. You are too boring, sober and no FUN. Bless the students. And teachers keep up the good work. "

Dubois wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:36 PM:

" Now we can no longer say that there has not been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11. Here it is. These young terrorists at Laramie Junior High have struck at the core of America, with their french-fry-throwing sas. I hope everyone down there is okay. God Bless those heroic police for stopping these terrorists in their tracks. "

expert wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:32 PM:

" I teach. U must not have tenure yet, huh? I hear the kids complain about teachers like you all day every day. Get over yourself and open your heart. "

To BARBARA wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:33 PM:

" Wrong. Only juvenile court records go away at eighteen. Not City. "

expert wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:38 PM:

" Lacidar, no need to post the letter. Your degrading comments (do you know what that is?) express your sarcasm and attitudes toward others. If you speak to the adults around you in those terms, it is obvious how you speak to the youth in your care. Move on to a profession where you are happy with your administrators rather than blaming them for your inabilities. Find somewhere to work where you can be happy, rather than spouting off "poor me" comments all day. "

oldmunchkin wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:41 PM:

" As of right this moment...I am trying to figure out who the heck used my name at 4:15PM today! That post is NOT me...the first oldmunchkin posting on this article. I can prove I wasn't even at a computer at 4:25 PM today! Please cease and desist with using this name, unless you are actually ME! Thanks...oldmunchkin "

insider wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:45 PM:

" The Wyoming Department of Education is seriously considering adding affective teaching requirements for certification. Call them and ask. "

Laramie Guy wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:47 PM:

" wanna hear something funny? There was a bomb threat in Laramie Friday and the cops searched the kids and their packs 5 or 6 times throughout the day. They did the right thing, but once again, they approached the kids through intimidation and fear, rather than making them feel safe they scared them with their approach. Maybe if they announced that they were searching for french frys instead of bombs it would have been less stressful. "

Educator wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:51 PM:

" I bet lacidar uses a lot of worksheets. I also bet the work is so overwhelming that the scantron does most of the grading. It would be too much work to get to know the kids and teach to their individual learning styles. Darn gang-bangers interferring with careers. "

UW Student wrote on Feb 12, 2008 10:41 AM:

" A ticket for hurling French Fries?? I can't believe that tickets were handed out during this fiasco. More people need to know and hear about this issue. What good does a fine and a ticket really do. Oh yeah it puts a dent in your money and you now have something called a record. That is not going to make people or children think about their actions so that they won't do something similar in the future. These girls should have had to work in the kitchen during their lunch time to see how much work the cooks do to provide them with meals. As well they should have had detention after school for a couple weeks of school. This would have given the girls plenty of time to think about what else they could be doing rather than causing trouble. I know it worked for me when I was in Middle School. Also it might even make a hardship for their parents who would have to pick them up from school and actually spend a little time with them talking about how they are doing in life.
Come on Parents, talk to your kids, know what they are doing and teach them something about life your self. As well the administration of this school and teachers of this school must not be too concerned about the livelihood of these children. The Laramie Police department needs to let school administration take care of business. The Police would be helping Laramie a lot more if they would worry about the real crime in this town, not the horrible crimes committed by these girls. "

LAPDWayne wrote on Feb 12, 2008 1:19 PM:

" I wonder how many of you people bashing the school admin staff and the police would scream lawsuit if one of your precious angels actually got hurt?
They were warned and still proceeded to act in that manner. They deserve what they got. They should also be expelled for a few days if they weren't already. If they act like that towards school staff, I wonder how they act at home towards their own parents?
The same parents who bash the police are the ones calling the police if their precious little sweet and pure and innocent angel of a daughter didn't come home from a friday night football game.
Oh, and for all you "police state" minded people, without the police I wonder how society would be?
And believe me, I spent over 16 years dealing with little deliquents like these girls. First it starts with not listening to your parents, getting into trouble at school, then commiting criminal acts.
And those same parents defending their precious little babies demand we do something when they don't listen or go to school. Or when they hang out with "bad people" or commit crimes that "my angel would never do". Always used to make me laugh. "

profit wrote on Feb 13, 2008 11:45 AM:

"
LAPDWayne, I hope you are not really a police officer. Who are the adults here? "

WW wrote on Feb 13, 2008 3:41 PM:

" You are right on LAPDWayne! I'm sick and tired of parents and kids who are afraid to take the heat when they are the one's that turned it up! The police and the admin should be commended for their actions not condemed for trying to make sure order, control, and a few rules are in place! "

mark wrote on Feb 13, 2008 9:56 PM:

" sure, now thes kids got a record ,next they will start using drugs and get kicked outta school and the parents will pay another fine now that's justice right "

profit wrote on Feb 14, 2008 8:10 AM:

" I am sick and tired of crabby people blaming their sorry lives on children. I am sorry you were treated badly as children, but that is no reason to become an abusive adult. Children are children and can be handled effectively without calling the police for noncompliance. All teenagers are obnoxious and so were you when you were one. The school administrator needs to find something else to do and the police need to pursue real criminals. "

CSU Student wrote on Feb 14, 2008 1:00 PM:

" People get the administrators and police that they deserve. "

sf wrote on Feb 15, 2008 1:33 AM:

" I, like LAPD, have a background in law enforcement also. I retired from police work in 1989. That is where I stop and start to disagree with him. You now have children who recieved tickets for throwing frys when the incident should have been taken care of with administrative action by the school and with parents present. In 10 years these children will be adults that probably will not get involved in giving any information to the authorities about things such as a crime wittnessed ect. Then the police will be concerned that people do not want to get involved. What ever happened to the police being proactive rather than reactive letting school officials handle these type of issues. Perhaps then the police and the school administration would be doing what they are paid to do with the school actually handeling discipline and the police to, oh what is it, yes protect and serve "

jamie wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:33 AM:

" yes i agree (profit)I am also sick and tired of the badge heavy cops having nothing to do but harass and intimidate are school kids. if the school administrator can not handle school children. then i say lets get them out and put some one in that can do the job. and lets also get rid of the badge heavy cops. are problem will not go away on its own.that LAPD wayne is a good example of what i am talking about. "

Greg wrote on Feb 15, 2008 11:27 AM:

" Good to see that Wyoming is getting in-step (goose-step) with the rest of the nation...government...what a bunch of CLOWNS!!! Thank heavens my youngest is out of school. "

Casper Resident wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:42 PM:

" Better to throw french fries than to do business with Rocky Mountain Carpet in Casper. "

exper wrote on Feb 16, 2008 7:19 PM:

" Lacidar, where did you go? Are you busy reporting to the police so you can get those bad apples out of your class? Or did you go buy more kleenex because so much is expected of you? "

Joe wrote on Feb 18, 2008 10:21 AM:

" Tickets are for adults; spankings or something less is for kids. When the hell did the police suddenly decide these kids were adults? Apparently a 13 year old is a kid by any definition except in the eyes of the nanny state.
When I went to school this kind of incident would have gone no further then a good tongue lashing from a teacher or principal. This “crime” does not begin to reach the level of police intervention. Teachers and principals are not longer capable of handling their kids, it takes the police to do that?? What are they good for? The principal needs to be fired for incompetence.
The immature police chief has probably done the law enforcement more harm then good because of the side effects of this action at such a early age. It's generally accepted that 13 year olds are not yet mature so in keeping with this accepted principal, these kids will indeed be mentally scared for the rest of their life. They will indeed be imprinted with the image of bad 'ole cops. These kids will likely never trust the police again. Good job chief. I guess you can afford to throw away your good-will capital on such a minuscule cause as French fries...Geesh.
I was born and spent my early years in Western Nebraska. I always believed that Wyoming, with it's rough and tumble image reinforced by their license plate with a cowboy riding a feisty horse, hearty people forged by the harsh winters and western landscape, held some of the last vestiges of common sense in this country. It was my last glimmer of hope. Looks like Wyoming has joined the rest of the nanny state where common sense isn't allowed. It's been substituted for a overbearing police chief and his minions. Sorry to hear that. "

Lacidar wrote on Feb 18, 2008 12:55 PM:

" oldmunchkin, I apologize for accidentally writing your "name" in the box when posting on February. That comment from 2/9/08 at 4:15 should be attributed to me. I was addressing "oldmunchkin" not trying to be him. Again I'm sorry. Also exper(t) I'm sorry that you've missed me, but I have moved on and have better things to do than debate this subject any further. I haven't had the time to monitor the blogs since I'm busy with my classes. Feel free to continue stewing over the topic though. You apparently are getting some sort of satisfaction from it. Peace. "

loonylinda wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:20 AM:

" Parents, aren't you happy to know your children are normal?? We did this stuff when we were younger, maybe got a detention or in school suspension, but a ticket and the incident being on their record is not right. Go ahead and suspend them since they were warned ahead of time and have them do things during that suspended time from school doing things to help clean up and improve it, working with the janitors maybe, make the punishment fit the crime.
And it was TOTALLY WRONG for the police to even talk to the children without a parent or guardian present they are minors. I would be seeing what a lawyer would say about my child being questioned and charged without my presence.
"

WHEATLANDFEMALE wrote on Feb 21, 2008 12:11 PM:

" I agree the girls should have been ticketed, too often bullying has been the reason we had columbine in co, and other school shootings by someone who has been harassed and or bullied. zero tolerance means zero. whether it be male or female. maybe they will get a stern lesson about how they treat others and not get shot in the return fire?? "

amazed wrote on Feb 21, 2008 2:41 PM:

" If "suspension" meant anything, I'd be all in favor. When I was in school, a suspension meant you go zeros for grades on all the work you would have been assigned during the suspension period. If you wanted to pass, you better hope you didn't get suspended during an important test that was more than 20 or 25% of your grade. . . and you better work your fingers to bleeding stumps for the rest of the year. Since you had to have a B average for extra-cirricular activities, you had plenty of time to study, because you were probably off any sports teams, FFA judging, cheerleading, debate. . . anything that wasn't part of your graduation requirements. I never got suspended, but trust me when I say that mt parents would have also added a little "home remedy." I'd have had so many chores around the ranch that I would not have seen the house during the light of day. We didn't have phones; we lived over 30 miles from town. Suspension would have been a real learning experience. That's probably why, when the principal and the cops told us NOT to do something, we didn't do it.
That's not to say that we never did "kids will be kids" things. We did. But we knew where to draw the line. And one of the places you draw the line is when you have been specifically told that a certain activity WILL NOT be tolerated. Our parents supported us when we were right AND the school and cops when they were right. Most of us knew that; the ones that didn't grew up to be familiar names on the court rosters.
Someone asked just what these girls had to throw before it would have been serious. Think about that You'd all want to send the whole lot to the Girls School, if someone had gotten a fork in the eye. . . not out of the realm of possibility on the school cafeteria.
Parents: you are raising the future generation of adults. Do you really want a food fight--or something like a South American soccer game riot--among your elected legislators. . . or your schoolboard members????
"

profit wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:48 AM:

" I'm amazed that adults are intolerant of children and would rather beat them up with the law than give natural consequences for limit testing behavior. There is no excuse for the school officials trumping up charges so they can win. Throwing French fries is a minor offense and could have been quickly squelched by removing the food or children from the lunch room and handing out detentions. These kinds of adults should not be in charge of our children. They create the situations so they can exercise their egos by creating a power struggle.. Calling the police and giving tickets for adult crimes is abusive. "

LJH parent wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:55 PM:

" My child currently attends Laramie Junior High and I appreciate the need for students in schools to follow the rules. After the now infamous french fry fiasco, I consulted my child’s student handbook which has a extensive and specific section addressing discipline. This is what I found. Hurling “missiles” is addressed as it relates to snowballs. The handbook explains that throwing snowballs can cause injury and is in violation of city ordinance. The penalty for a first offense is detention and parents are notified. Throwing food is also listed as a more serious breach of the rules and classified as a major disciplinary infraction, as is insubordination. The punishment outlined for this type of misconduct is two days of in-school suspension. According to the Laramie Junior High student handbook these girls should have been punished with two days of in-school suspension instead of being suspended out of school and having a citation issued by police. Children learn appropriate behavior when they see the desired behavior modeled by adults they respect. If this issue is truly about teaching children to follow the rules, why didn’t school officials follow their own rules instead of acting like bullies just to show that they are really in “control”? As a parent of a Laramie Junior High student, the lesson I learned is that parents cannot trust information that’s provided by the school to be accurate. "

RTM wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:46 AM:

" I agree we should throw the book at them. We have a responsibility to the public to serve and protect. French fry throwing today, grand theft auto tomorrow! Don't tell me you can't put these together anybody can see these girls were on their way to a life of crime! We have to stop it first chance we get.
Jeez it would have been easier on them to get a DUI! POLICE you are MORONS it was a french fry for gawds sake not a pipe bomb! "

outsider wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:09 AM:

" what I'am truly amazed at here is not the punishment, but the 137 people with so much time on their hands to sit at a keyboard and comment on such a trivial matter. Unemployement must be up in this area of the country. "

profit wrote on Feb 26, 2008 8:52 PM:

" I'm amazed that one criticizing posters would take the time to post drivel.. "

sf wrote on Feb 27, 2008 8:27 PM:

" outsider how long have you been unemployed since you also posted "

mathew wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:16 AM:

" Of course, the current system has also caused the absurdity of having 18 to 20-year-olds routinely tried in adult court for a 'crime' that can only be committed by a minor. Whatever. It's interesting that it took the threat of losing highway funding to force states like South Dakota and Wyoming (we changed our law about that same time) to raise the drinking age.
------------------
mathew hadley

California Dui "

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