" This is great news for Wyoming. Now we can shut down all mining and drilling activity, and the workers in those industries can flee the state for lack of jobs including native Wyomingites and grads of UW. Wyoming can go back to the days of the 80's and 90's with failing infrastructure and debt, and the country can deal with the higher prices of coal and natural gas coming from overseas. This is great for every environmentalist in California and those Wyomingites whom have their head in the dirt. "

" Western Watersheds is led by Jon Marvel. Whenever western watersheds has an issue they take it before Judge Winmill. It seems Judge Winmill has no problem legislating from the bench the things they request. Western Watersheds is not concerned with any wildlife, their mission is to control the land and dictate who can be on it. They will use whatever tool is available especially the courts...............The unfortunate thing in all of this is that while admittedly the overall Sage Grouse numbers have declined since the 1960s (Although their numbers have shown a marked increase the last few years) no one wants to look for the real cause(s) they jump to use the Grouse decline for their own agenda like no drilling or no grazing. So while the Sage Grouse languishes waiting for constructive solutions. The Courts or I should say some Judges, jump to the sympathy of the special interest groups and their false accusations. In the rush to study the studies the needed investigations go lacking and the pointing fingers get excercised.


And now for you anti-drillers start pointing your fingers at the petroleum industry............ Its about time we all take a real look and demand real answers instead of blaming our pet grievance when its convenient for our cause. Being anxious to falsely point your finger only makes you part of the problem..............................


"

" Unfortunately, the sage grouse is headed for extinction whether it is listed or not. Development is what will put it over the edge. "

" Lamp Lighter:

So why, in your concerned opinion, is the sage grouse declining from its numbers before the 1960s?

You failed to mention, other than it isn't drilling or grazing. "

" Hello boozoo

I suppose your hoping I will take some kind of bait and maybe I am. To make it short I have no idea why the decline of the Sage Grouse but its quite obvious no one is rushing to find out, only to accuse............And use it for political causes.The decline was well underway long before the accelerated drilling came to be. Also after the much reduced numbers of sheep and cattle. If it was different in your area I would like to hear about it.The dramatic part of the decline seemed to happen within a five to eight year period (And less) throughout the whole intermountain area not just where drilling or grazing was prevalent. People that are against either grazing or drilling still try to lay blame and use the decline for their own driven purposes. What I'm suggesting is that we look for the culprit, wherever and whatever it may be and quit being headlocked in blame and agendas. If we are falsly accusing something, that keeps us from looking for the true answers...And will surely guarantee a status quo, maybe to the satisfaction of those that want restrictions but not to those that have a real concern for the Sage Chicken. "

" I am redneck/roughneck. Hear me roar! I know all biologically, ecologically, and geologically. Especially the fact my lifestyle or career could never harm the environment, nor the individuals inhabiting that environment! Of course not, because I completely understand the dynamics of ecological fragmentation, industrial sprawl, and pollutant/contaminant transport among the numerous other environmental inflictions that supposably do not exist in these drilling fields that are causing the Sage Grouse to be considered under endangered classification, simply because I say so! But we must keep spreading our drilling fields outside of eco-sustainability, especially with less effort exerted toward practices to minimize environmental repercussions! Remember, the more land we drill at one time--the more money the state and its residents won't have, including the loss of potential job security many of Wyoming's true resident workers deserve from the rampant attainment of Wyoming's remaining oil/natural gas.

Hey Phil,
I didn't enroll at UW to specialize in roughneck-101. I can't say that any of my peers have considered majoring in anything relatively close to within Wyoming's fossil fuel industry either. I think you should consider the situation laterally--but minus the discipline of education. Even as a student of geology who has every intention to remain WITHIN Wyoming once I graduate--I have much better employment prospects outside the oil & natural gas or mining industry. Fossil fuels are a dying degree economically. Any self proclaimed individual could easily recognize that.... "

" The information that will be reviewed is not a bunch of drivel put together by radical environmentalists. The majority of recent research has been conducted by wildlife agency biologists and university researchers that have considerable expertise in this field. These people do not have an axe to grind or have any vested monetary interest in stopping oil and gas development. The preponderance of data clearly shows that there is a significant relationship between oil and gas development and declines in sage grouse populations. Much of this damning information has come from recent studies that were not completed when the USFWS did the last evaluation on whether to list the bird or not. It is strange that only the oil and gas consultant biologist has come to the conclusion that the development is not detrimental to sage grouse. The peer reviewed science does not bear out her conclusions. Development of any type, excessive grazing, and drought have all affected sage grouse populations but it is intensive oil and gas development that is really whacking the birds in places like the Powder River Basin.

I hate to see any species get to the point that it will have to be listed. The sad fact is however that the regulatory system which normally provides environmental safeguards to prevent this from happening has been flawed. Drilling permits are being issued at such a rate that effects of this development on other important resources such as wildlife and even ranching are not being considered.
Something needs to be done to slow down the pace of development so that the system can work.

I realize that we need energy and that oil and gas development must occur. We will need the energy for a long time to come. I do not see the sense in drilling everything all at once and sacrificing everything else in the process. Sustainable resources like wildlife, tourism, and ranching provide economic benefits to Wyoming for the long term. If we drill everything wholesale all we are asking for is more boom and bust.

The deck is stacked squarely against wildlife interests and for the oil and gas industry in Wyoming. The lobbying effort in Cheyenne. for development is intense and effective. Drilling is being proposed at such a high rate that there is no hope that the cumulative environmental effects can be adequately evaluated. That is precisely what the industry wants. They do not care if other important resources are lost and they do not care about the people of Wyoming who care about those resources. The propaganda machine is so effective that anyone questioning the drilling is made out to be some kind of obstructionist or radical. It is not environmentalist that are setting the agenda in Wyoming it is the energy industry. The comments here suggest that many of you either are at the oil and gas trough or are so naive that you can't understand what is happeniing. Yes some of us will benefit from the drilling but all of us will pay the costs for many years to come. "

" Wyoelkhunter, I couldn't of said it better myself. The oil/natural gas bio-consultant is incorrect on many different bio-/eco-levels of just his/her observations alone. I really wonder what the scale of the study itself encompassed. However, the bias is to be expected given his/her employer, though. The bias is further unfortunate because it allows false or manipulated data to become mainstay fodder for individuals who feel directly threatened by the possible listing of the sage grouse as endangered. Maybe one day the permanent residents of Wyoming will realize that they are undermining their own livelihoods by not implementing sustainable practices within the oil/gas industry or conservation of Wyoming’s natural resources (both fossiliferous & ecological) in general. "

" I frequent the Jonah, Moxa, Overthrust belt, Anticline, or Upper Washakie oil/natural gas field on almost a daily basis. I have done so for the past twenty-two years. Unfortunately, the culprit is ill-regulated oil/natural gas development. Oil/natural gas development doesn’t have to be the primary reason; but because neglectful individuals readily reject Wyoming’s legacy or landscapes as intrinsically/aesthetically worthy in comparison to development, it is. You mentioned a personal observation that the Sage grouse populous began to decrease near eight years prior? Well, considering all the oil/natural gas fields mentioned above—Oil/natural gas well sites already existed in these areas pre-1990. It wasn’t up until the Jonah/Anticline expansion of late 1999 or continuous Moxa expansion since pre-1990 or Upper Washakie expansion in the table rock region in early 2000 that Sage Grouse populous were observed as decreasing. The key is sustainable development. Not only in terms of protecting environmental integrity but in sustaining economic longevity for the state of Wyoming. Applying sustainable practices towards oil/natural gas development will ensure that any individual who remains permanently employed in Wyoming’s oil/natural gas industry has equal chance at retaining their livelihood while also maintaining environmental integrity to a much higher degree, and etc. "

" Legislate from the bench? That's Republican code for "the forces of good are getting in the way of what we want to make us richer". Too bad the small minded who work in the extractive-land destroying industries that have set up camp in this state can't see that what they're doing is ruining what makes Wyoming a fine place in favor of making their masters more money and allowing themselves the privlege of being first in line for the table scraps. "

" RDN we may be thrown off this forum for trying to confuse the usual characters with facts..

The truth is that there never has been enough discussion of facts in this oild and gas situation since the beginning. The industry has set the agenda instead of the people of Wyoming. Too often as Funny points out the people reacting to stories of this type are out to out redneck or out greenie each other. They aren't trying to really discuss a timely issue. I am getting really tired of all these folks trying to prove that they are robots run by either Rush Linbaugh or Al Franken. Don't we think anymore for ourselves? Don't we even consider our own interests?


i have been an avid hunter my entire life. Where are my fellow sportsmen and women in this fight? They rose up recently to challenge drilling in the Wyoming range with great success. Then they faded quietly away. There are many people in Wyoming that have a stake in the great outdoors. Every hunter, hiker backpacker, rancher, fisherman, outfitter, and other outdoor enthusiast should be raising holy hell over the way the energy development is being mishandled. They should be loudly demanding that development go forward in a responsible manner according to a plan which protects the other important resources of our public lands. The analysis and planning should occur before the drilling starts not as an afterthought. Every single day has an article about a new drilling proposal in a different place. Ever wonder why this occurs piecemeal rather in a cumulative fashion? Because the industry well knows that it is imposible to evaluate and harder to oppose these small projects thats why. Its another example of public be damned. The legislature flooded with energy lobbyists never demands a ccordinated approach to energy development in Wyoming. Wonder why? "

" We face many challenges. Loss of habitat, habitat degradation, not enough fossil fuel, not enough quality jobs, not enough affordable housing, not enough tax dollars in the public coffers, failing infrastructure.

These problems are also caused by many factors, some related others not related.

One thing is certain, we cannot keep lumping every problem into every argument.

We have to break these down into their functional, workable pieces.

It there is a cause and effect relationship between two that can be proven, then we can work both as one.

Until we start approaching these issues rationally using measured facts, we will never begin to solve any of them.

The name calling and finger pointing only divides us and isolates us further from a real solution. The bitching must stop and the thinking and working together must start.

As we waste time on useless bickering boards like this one the state is being divided up by the extreme groups on either side which serves no one but them for short periods until the pendulum swings back fully into the other direction never hitting or staying on middle ground.

"

" Hello Editor: Why did you pass on my last post? I had nothing slanderous or inflamatory included. I was trying to explain to Red Desert that the time period I referred to was in the 50's and 60's and was the chickens initial decline not the 80's and 90's as he misunderstood. ........ "

" BiPC43 this pendulum effect is true of everything done in this country. Ideology is trumping national interests and rational thought. You would think that a forum like this would be a great place to throw out ideas and work out problems. It works until you use the wrong code word and the ideologues descend on you smelling blood. For some this board is merely for entertainment or a way to blast ones enemies at the other extreme. Then so much for meaningful discussion. I usually try to make something meaningful out of one of these boards until I get totally outnumbered by the extremists. Its amazing that we've held on to this string as long as we have. It can't last. There are just too many of them :-) "

" How come it's always the people who want to kill and displace are almost always Republicans? That kind of platform is a far cry from what Teddy Rosevelt and even Abe Lincoln championed. Some have said it here before, but the Republican Party is now the Party of Hate and Greed. I agree. "

" DanaJill, It is interesting how you lump subjects together.

You don't seem to know much history either. Lincoln, a Republican was the President on the "right side" during the civil war. JKF got us into Vietnam and Johnson expanded that war. Richard Nixion got us out of Vietnam. FDR was the President when WWII started and Truman was during Korea. Now, which is the party of killing and war?

I'd like to also ask you who for more of the last century controlled the US Congress and who now controls it again? The answer is the democrates. Hence, if you do not like the environmental laws or their enforcement, perhaps you should rethink your stated position.

By the way, you live in a building of some sort, it occupies land and it consumes energy all the while creating greenhouse gases. So in fact, the individual citizen is to blame and the enemy of habitate, wildlife and the cause for our need for oil. You, are the party dictating the killing and the displacement. "

" Perhaps Dillan can tell us what party got us into Iraq and squandered the biggest surplus in the history of the world?
Hey Dillan, what party is responsible for the largest deficit in the history of this country?
Do you know who the President was then?
Maybe Dillan can go even farther and tell us which President got this country that huge surplus?
Can Dillan tell us why oil is over $100 a barrel and gas is over $3.00 a gallon when US consumption is down and reserves are at an all time high?
Dillan, how are we going to stop this country from borrowing money from the Chinese so we can buy oil from the Saudis?
If anyone doesn't seem to know much histroy, it's you Dillan. And that's just recent history.
Or do you call it Current Events? That's a different subject altogether, isn't it? "