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Parties debate need for immigrant bill


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CHEYENNE -- A bill pending in the Wyoming Legislature to cut some state services to illegal immigrants would disrupt families and scare even legal immigrants from seeking help when they need it, opponents of the measure said.

Wyoming is one of several states where lawmakers are seeking to crack down on illegal immigration, citing an absence of federal action on the issue. The Wyoming bill passed the House this week and is pending in the Senate.

House Majority Floor Leader Colin Simpson, the bill's sponsor, said he modeled it after similar legislation enacted in Colorado in 2006.

Simpson said he believes thousands of illegal immigrants in Wyoming now receive benefits. His bill would block them from services ranging from driver's licenses and non-emergency health care to post-secondary education and food assistance.

"When you look at the numbers of what illegal aliens cost America, for one, they're fairly staggering," said Simpson, R-Cody. "And in Wyoming, we have much smaller population, so our numbers are lower. But assuming we had 5,000 illegal aliens who are receiving benefits worth $10,000 apiece, that adds up on an annual basis, and burdens all kinds of the social welfare systems."

Bille Metzger, program director of La Puerta Abierta, a program that works with immigrant families in Jackson, said the group trains adults about government services available for them.

She said many of the immigrants have visas to work in the country, and changing state law to specify that illegal immigrants aren't eligible for government services would hit the entire immigrant community.

"They would not feel comfortable because of insecurity of not knowing how the system works, what would happen to them, how it would affect their life, the lives of their children or family members," Metzger said.

Any deportation of a family member affects the entire immigrant family, including others who are in the state legally, Metzger said.

The Pew Hispanic Center in 2006 estimated that Wyoming has fewer than 10,000 illegal immigrants -- a tiny portion of the roughly 12 million people the group estimates are in the country illegally.

Jack Martin of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington D.C. group, said his group also estimates that Wyoming's illegal immigrant population is about 5,000 to 10,000.

"It's so small that its not really on the radar screen compared to states like Arizona, Texas or California," said Martin, whose group advocates on tightening immigration laws.

Yet Martin estimated that Wyoming spends about $5 million a year on providing benefits to illegal immigrants.

Sen. Drew Perkins, R-Casper, a co-sponsor of the Wyoming measure, said he and Simpson are concerned that Wyoming could become a haven as other states tighten their illegal immigration laws.

"If you don't keep pace, ultimately, you end up creating a hole, and you end up being the one people go to because they can get those benefits without any kind of scrutiny," Perkins said.

The bill's sponsors said they're not opposed to legal immigration. Perkins pointed out that there's high demand in Wyoming for qualified workers.

In Jackson, many restaurants and hotels are able to provide their immigrant workers short-term visas, Metzger said.

"I know most of them came here on a legal visa, and are trying to maintain their status," she said.

La Puerta Abierta trains 15 immigrant families in language skills as well as how to integrate into U.S. society, without asking about their residency status, Metzger said.

Metzger said her program also helps the immigrants' children, nearly all of them were born in Wyoming.

Rep. Ken Esquibel, D-Cheyenne, was among the minority in the House to vote against the bill.

"I don't really think that we need to be giving services to illegal aliens," Esquibel said. "But if they have kids, and they're in schools, and they're American citizens, it would affect them as far as whether or not the parents were there, and if they've got a job. It would affect whether or not they can put food on the table, and clothes on the backs of the kids."


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JanetP wrote on Feb 28, 2008 5:13 AM:

" "They would not feel comfortable because of insecurity of not knowing how the system works, what would happen to them, how it would affect their life, the lives of their children or family members," Metzger said."

How about a word or two about the effect illegal immigration is having on Americans - and more specifically on the citizens of Wyoming? Don't we count anymore? Should all our efforts and resources be directed toward making illegal immigrants feel 'comfortable' and 'secure?' Indeed they should feel apprehension, just like any other person who has broken the law and fears being discovered.
"

BULL wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:43 AM:

" I knew it. The Republicans are protecting thier cheap illegal labor. If they dont pass this bill , we need to elect someone who will. "

JAS wrote on Feb 28, 2008 5:32 PM:

" Did BULL read the same article? It is the Republicans who sponsored and are trying to get this bill passed -- If you read the article, it's the Democrats that are against it. I don't understand why we are responsible to pay for all these people who are here illegally, and why do we cater to them? If they want to be in this Country, they need to get an honest job, learn english and contribute. A lot of them are just here to earn our money, then go back to their own Country to buy property, etc. Why do we have to foot the bill for them to go back to their own Country wealthy? "

BornInTheUSA wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:45 PM:

" Pass the bill. Round em up and ship em out. "

frank l kinney wrote on Feb 28, 2008 10:40 PM:

" why would legal immigrants be in fear? maybe because they are giving shelter to illegals? cost the state 5 million dollars tax payers 5 million dollars!! what about american victims say like minnesota that illegal immigrant that ran a stop sign and killed them children in a school bus!!! ask them parents how they feel about illegal immigrants? if that illegal was not here their kids would be!!! mister thats one of the best arguments against illegal immigrants don't you agree? think american your thinking of you! independent replace the ones who do not think of you!!! michigan little big horn AMEN. "

georgewashakie wrote on Feb 29, 2008 9:35 AM:

" With all this speculation about the dangers and costs of illegal immigration, how about a little speculation about how we in Wyoming are going to identify all these illegals so we can apply the law? I really do not see us asking all the foreign tourists for their passports as they enter the hospital. The burger joints are not going to enjoy checking the Social Security status of everyone who applies for a job. The Highway Patrol will have to spend extra time checking out those with foreign driver's licenses. Teachers are going to be required to check the authenticity of every birth certificate? Think about it. And while you are thinking, put yourself in the place of any immigrant--legal or illegal--and rationalize why you would want to have any contact with any government agency, state or federal. "

JAS wrote on Feb 29, 2008 5:40 PM:

" In response to "georgewashakie" -- The immigrants don't have any problem making contact to get all their free services now do they? "

georgewashakie wrote on Mar 1, 2008 9:32 AM:

" If you believe that 5,000 illegal immigrants are all drawing benefits from the State of Wyoming, you had better check what you have in your pipe. Nationwide studies indicate that illegal immigrants are less likely to seek medical services--granted that there is substantial anecdotal record to the contrary, they are less likely to secure driver's licenses, and less likely to be arrested than Legal Immigrants. Illegals do not qualify for welfare and Medicare because of federal regulations. Where they have legal protection from federal laws, they do use state services; education for illegals is an unfunded federal mandate. "

Gunner wrote on Mar 1, 2008 5:16 PM:

" I would like to have FREE healthcare, education, and food assistance, but I'm not a illegal immigrant..... Dang it... "

Karen wrote on Mar 2, 2008 6:17 AM:

" Way to go Gunner. You are so right. When my sister in law hurt her back working for a large company and was fighting them and lost the court case against them she was and still is unable to get any assistance. But yet she sat in the social service office and watched many immigrants get services that she was told she, an American couldn't qualify for. She needed help with medical expenses, rent and food for awhile so she could get back on her feet and was denied the help she needed. Something is wrong with this picture. "

profit wrote on Mar 2, 2008 7:34 AM:

" The state needs to go after the employers of illegals. Create a hefty fine for the employers. "

Lamp Lighter wrote on Mar 2, 2008 9:46 AM:

" We, us, the U.S. allowed the entangled problems. We obviously need to seal the borders good enough to stop escalating the problem and then we can deal with what we have. For the most part the illegals have been paid around eight to ten bucks an hour with no benefits. These are people we are talking about not wolves. If we forget the compassion in all of this we and our posterity will suffer. Almost all of us are immigrants a couple of times removed, most just walked or floated across the border the same way. So if we have decided we have come to a point we need to do something let's do it in a caring and compassionate way, lets not kick ourselves in the teeth in the process. Blaming the illegals for our personal problems will only weaken our society and we will be held up to the light of the world as hypocrites.... "

iri4q2 wrote on Mar 2, 2008 10:58 AM:

" george , Hell yes ! ask for IDs and if they dont have it they are GONE ! The money spent on overtime will be a Great investment for America that will pay 10 fold by the end. Viva la Wyoming ! "

Delaware Bob wrote on Mar 2, 2008 4:10 PM:

" "...disrupt families and scare even legal immigrants..."

How and why would this scare legal immigrants? Legal residents have NOTHING to be scared of. It's the ILLEGAL ALIENS we must stop from getting benefits they don't deserve or have a right to.

I'm all for the law being passed and the sooner the better. The Oklahoma and Arizona laws are working GREAT!, so I have heard. Schools are less crowded, no more anchor babies, hospitals are no longer overwhelmed and saving the taxpayers lots of money. I have read that crime is down. That's good.

I say pass the law. It's time these ILLEGAL ALIENS go back to their home country and give us our Country back. What is the problem with that?
"

Ricardo wrote on Mar 3, 2008 6:37 AM:

" Remember that adage " There is no such thing as a free lunch?" Well, if you import illegal labor, pay them a slave wage, then expect the taxpayer to make up the difference, what do you expect? The employer got his free lunch and the public was left holding the bag. Now who is going to do this labor if you deport them? It is the three million people in jail or prison? It is the druggie? Is it the lazy teenager who sleeps all day? Is it the young adult male who has never worked in this life because his parents support him? Did you ever think what would become of America if 20 million productive workers were taken out of the economic system overnight? "

Trixie wrote on Mar 3, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Immigration is fine and a good thing. But, this is not about legal immigration, it is about illegal immigration. Words have meaning and we need to ensure that we are using the correct language in this discourse and that we are being honest or nothing will be fixed. "

Grady wrote on Mar 3, 2008 11:52 AM:

" Getting ride of the illegal aliens would also help to relieve our now growing unemployment (about 5.1% nation wide up from about 5% last month). Yes, Americans will do these jobs, that is who did them before and will do them again. Notably, most of the illegal aliens are now in the building trades, a vocation that once provided Americans with solid jobs, so they're not all out picking lettus (which those with legal work visa's, which are easy to obtain, can pick if they want to). "

georgewashakie wrote on Mar 3, 2008 1:20 PM:

" It is difficult to carry on a conversation with individuals who have no regard for facts, consider all personal opinions sufficient for making policy decisions, and have no respect for the laws of the nation or the U.S. Constitution.
Tell us again which DFS office was processing benefits for illegal immigrants.
Explain how the Arizona law which is working so well has nothing to do with the legislation you are talking about. By the way, the Arizona law has been held up because of numerous problems.
"Anchor babies" are an invention of people who want to change laws without amending the Constitution.
Look at what the newspapers in Oklahoma have to say about their new law--plenty of problems. "

May wrote on Mar 3, 2008 1:26 PM:

" georgewashakie; What is the validated and substanciated source for your many claims? I ask as they fly in the face of what has been concluded in most other states around the nation. In California alone the cost of providing undergraduate and graduate eductional services to illegal aliens is projected at 150 million dollars for CY 2008. That is just for college and nothing else. "

Edna wrote on Mar 3, 2008 3:18 PM:

" georgewashakie, If you so love all the new people coming to America illegally, where do you set any limits or controls on immigration, legal or otherwise? Do you think that we can endlessly afford to bring everyone here that wants to leave their crappy country? How many can we absorb and for how long until we cannot provide the needed public services for everyone? I also have to ask if you think that it is fair that their are people in other nations that have filled out the proper paper work to immigrate legally and are now patiently awaiting their turn to come to America obeying our laws while others just "break in" without our even knowing who they are in violation of our laws? What is your unspoken agenda here? Surely you cannot be so foolish as to think we can endlessly absorb new folks in mass numbers not knowing who they are or that it is fair to make those that obey the law wait while we welcome the criminal illegal aliens? "

georgewashakie wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:23 PM:

" Whoa! This began with some legislators tossing around claims--darn few facts, but who would question a legislator--about illegal immigrants in Wyoming. Next, there are all sorts of facts about every place except Wyoming. (I am still waiting for Karen to identify that DFS office.) Then there were some interpretations of the law and the Constitution that would fit Wikipedia's definition of b******t.
I believe that the immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed, as a national policy. I also believe it is tragic to see citizens being strummed by politicians who know how to play the idiot card.
Ask your elected representative where they stood on this bill, and then ask them why the legislature is turned off to the Real ID proposal which would be needed to put teeth in this lbill.
How long has it been since you wrote to Senator Enzi, Senator Barrassso, or Representative Cubin? Try a little accountability--or research. "

Dame wrote on Mar 4, 2008 1:54 PM:

" I agree completely that the immigration system is broken! Those of you who talk about waiting your turn and immigrating legally, do you have ANY idea as to what is involved in that process? The amount of time and money is outrageous! Not to mention the stress on the families. I do think that there needs to be some tightening of the boarders. However the real problem, from where I stand is the whole immigration system! It is broken, very broken! Passing this bill will do nothing to "fix" the real problems. I do not claim to have all the answers but I do think that we need to get to the core of the promlem. "

sherri wrote on Mar 4, 2008 2:07 PM:

" This bill is not merely a good idea, it is absolutely imperative if we are to remain a civilization that functions by the rule of law. There is nothing incorrect, unconstitutional or in the least degree racial about this legislation.

It is simply good law that will keep Wyoming from becoming not just a safe haven for illegal immigrants, but also for terrorists posing as illegal immigrants. Not to mention the fact that the overwhelming majority of Wyoming's legal residents and citizens want this law on the books.

The misfortunes of illegal immigrants in their native countries is not the responsibility of Wyoming or American taxpayers. We have enough problems of our own without adopting Mexico's or any other country's problems.

Yes, Wyoming will become a safe haven for illegal immigrants and we will end up bearing the burden for most of the rest of the country.
Many other states have already passed similar legislation and those laws are passing constitutional considerations. If Wyoming does not pass this law we will have to absord a hugely disproportionate burden of the costs and all the other problems (cultural, criminal, linguistic, healthcare, education, etc. etc. etc.) because tens of thousands of illegal immigrants will migrate immediately to Wyoming. Many of them already are.

There is just no way to justify making Wyoming taxpayers pay for benefits for individuals who have broken our federal laws, and then demand services that in most cases they have not payed one dime into. By the way the Mexican anchor babies that are born in this country are also by law Mexican citizens and can return to Mexico with their parent(s) at any time. The only hardship that can befall these children is brought upon them and continued by their illegal immigrant parent(s) remaining in this country illegally.

Wyoming's legislature can do The citizens and legal residents of our state a big favor by passing this legislation at this time. Waiting even one more year could make the situation far worse than it is now. During the next year conservative estimates indicate that if Wyoming does not have laws preventing benefits from being given to illegal immigrants, the migration in just 12 months time into the state will be between 11,000 to 18,000 more illegal immigrants. The U.S. department of health and human services released figures last year indicating that 68% of the people identified as illegal immigrants applied for and received public assistance benefits in 39 states. None of these states had laws preventing benefits from being granted to the illegal immigrants at that time. That means without this legislation Wyoming can expect to have an increase of at least 9,860 more persons on public assistance over the next 12 months.

Then there will be the other increased costs such as incarceration, state and local justice processes, and of course educational cost increases which also will include additional bilingual educators. If the state legislature cares in the least about the quality of life in our state they will pass this legislation now.





"

Dame wrote on Mar 4, 2008 2:09 PM:

" To comment on what Grady said about the unemployment rate going down if illegal immigrants were "gotten rid of"; that is absurb! Maybe if these unemployed people could pass a drug test, they would have a job. Granted that does not apply to everyone but it does repesent a majority. Where I live, there are "help wanted" signs posted on nearly every business I enter. That does not support your statement that illegal immigrants are taking all the jobs from Americans. "

Albert wrote on Mar 4, 2008 4:47 PM:

" In the 1950's the US ejected a whole heap of illegal alien Mexican's. With technology that we have today and a concerted effort, we can, should and must do so again to regain our nation. I just came back from visiting my son in Yuma Arizona, what a mess that whole area is now. It looks like a third world country, not like part of America. San Diego was even worse on the couple of days we spent there. What was once touted as America's finest city is a dirty, crime ridden hole. "

macaad wrote on Mar 4, 2008 8:15 PM:

" And how are we going to just "round them up and ship them out?" Do you know how much that will cost? More concentration should be put on the efforts for people, like me, that entered the country the legal way. I'm bringing familly from Canada- you understand Canada to the north eh?!- and we are being treated like crimminals. "

Trace wrote on Mar 5, 2008 8:27 AM:

" Please pass this bill. It is absolutely the right thing to do. "

hvacman wrote on Mar 5, 2008 8:37 AM:

" All I can say about this is it seems that the goverment wants illegal's here I have been working on getting my wife on the road to citizenship { the legal way] and it has been one long road !{almost a year and a half now} they raised the fee from 300 something to over 1,000 now they mire you in paperwork and make you wait . She has been here since oct. and we yet haven't got an interview appointment so I guess we will play the waiting game . something to think about !!!! "

georgewashakie wrote on Mar 5, 2008 9:20 AM:

" I find it difficult to believe that our recent display of Wyoming breezes, and the talk of housing shortages and rising rents will attract another five or ten thousand illegals to the state.
Would it make any difference if almost half of the "illegals" filled out the paperwork and came into the USA on visas? Ask the INS.
Those who are concerned about drug trafficking and terrorism, show a little support for constructing a fence along the U.S./Canadian border and building a fleet of Coast Guard cutters to station every five miles of coast line, like we have done in Florida for the past forty years. "

Baller wrote on Mar 5, 2008 1:17 PM:

" Becuase of our own inability to enforce the law, we need to make a sensible pathway for citizenship for the illegals already in this country. We can then move forward with legislation that penalizes or imprisons law-breaking employers who hire illegals. Illegal immigration would be almost be non-existent if we took away the economic incentive. "

Ben wrote on Mar 5, 2008 10:42 PM:

" Wyoming must have this law and now! Do not forget how fast our state services will be over run and our education system disabled if we do not protect ourselves in the same way many other states have had to. We did not create this problem, the illegal immigrants did.

DONT LISTEN TO THE PHONY ARGUMENT THAT WE CANNOT ROUND ALL THE MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS UP AND DEPORT THEM. WE DON'T HAVE TO! JUST STOP THE BENEFITS AND THE JOBS, AND START PUNISHING THE EMPLOYERS FOR VIOLATING THE LAW BY HIRING ILLEGALS. MOST OF THE ILLEGALS WIILL MIGRATE BACK TO MEXICO ON THEIR OWN OVER THE NEXT TWO OR THREE YEARS! THE GREEDY SLAVE LABOR EMPLOYERS ARE LARGELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, SO START CHANGING STATE GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS TO EXCLUDE THOSE BUSINESSES THAT HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Wyoming consumers should stop doing business with any company or individuals that are using illegals in their workforce. Boycott them into following the law. If Wyoming's legislators could see first hand what has happened to all the areas in America that have been inundated by these illegals and all the horrendous costs and problems they have created they would pass this bill and other stronger measures in a heartbeat. This is not hysteria or raciscm, it is the plain facts.

Don't let Wyoming become a magnet state for illegals, or everyone living here will be very sorry. Just look at how many comments in support of this law there is compared to the number of comments in favor of illegal immigrants and you will know what Wyoming wants. Just because a large number of people decided to overwhelm our federal law enforcement community with sheer numbers does not mean they should get away with it. The states and local governments have to step in now and help federal law enforcement by adopting local and state laws so that these lawbreakers are not getting benefits which enables them to continue to break the federal law and encourages more of them to come and do so. If you are giving these law breakers jobs, money, and any kind of benefits and services you are aiding and abetting them.
STOP THIS DANGEROUS ILLEGAL INVASION OF OUR COUNTRY AND STATE NOW BEFORE IT IS TO LATE!!! "

Dame wrote on Mar 6, 2008 10:19 AM:

" Hvacman, I hear you on the process. I am also trying to get my husband here the legal way. We started the process in 2004. We are still waiting! I am a US citizen as are our 3 children. My husband has been in Mexico for 2 1/2 years now WAITING for our government to decide if my family can be together. Here we are following the rules, jumping thru the hoops and yet there is no end in sight. My family has been seperated and I have been forced to be a single mother! Is our country not concerned with family values? Between attorney fees, application fees, and filing fees, we have paid over $5,000. The process is exhausting! Then you wonder why there are so many people here illegally? "

Doris wrote on Mar 6, 2008 11:19 AM:

" Why should the US change its laws to accommodate a group of criminals and their US supporters (which by the way makes them criminals too)?

Some of you are suggesting that we just roll-over and give in to the desires of these foreign criminals. Is this how you lead your life? If so you are a loser and should not have an opinion.

These invaders need to go home and do something about their own corrupt countries rather than come here and trash ours. Those of you that support them need to reevaluate what is right and what is wrong. You seem to have lost your moral compass.

Yes, getting ride of them will be tough, most things worth doing are challenging (remember WWII?). The answer is not to give up and do as dictated to by thugs and their weakling domestic criminal supporters.
"

LKD wrote on Mar 6, 2008 3:25 PM:

" These crimnal Mexicans and others that are illegal aliens have to go and those citizens that employ them and support them (aiding and abetting) have to go to jail for a long, long time. "

Chris wrote on Mar 6, 2008 11:36 PM:

" I encourage our elected representatives to represent us the citizens of Wyoming. We elected you to your seats in government to reflect what we the majority want and it is most definitely apparent that we want strong legislation that prohibits illegal aliens who entered our country and our state illegally from receiving any benefits, except emergency humanitarian medical care.

Every part of our country that has been ruined in every way that you can ruin something started out with only a few thousand illegal residents. Very quickly it became several ten thousand illegal residents and the problems exploded. If you take away the jobs and the benefits they will leave. No need to deport them. When you have no way to get money or any other necessity in a country that you have entered illegally, you will go back home to your native country and try to make it a better place to live. And you will take your children with you.

This problem grew exponentially after George W. Bush came into office because he wanted an open border with Mexico due to his family's close personal ties with the people and government of Mexico. Our immigration laws were quite enforceable and still are enforceable, but the chief executive in charge of enforcing our nation's laws refuses to do so. He and a few other people, most of whom are hiding in the shadows, want to unite Canada, Mexico and the United States into a North American Union just like the European Union. They don't even bother trying to lie about it or hide it anymore. They are just going to do this, U.S. constitution be damned, by creating a defacto economic, no borders union of the three countries. This will dilute the standard of living and the quality of life for all Americans, while our less fortunate neighbors, mostly Mexico, reap all the benefits.
And guess what? Your president and your elected representatives never asked you ONCE what you wanted!

I am not waiting around for my state representative and senator to ask me. I am telling you flat out pass this law and represent me, a legal U.S. citizen born in Sheridan, Wyoming who pays taxes at the federal and state levels. If you don't you are sell-outs and cowards and do not deserve to continue to unrepresent me and the rest of our state's legal, tax paying citizens.

"

Julie wrote on Mar 6, 2008 11:57 PM:

" Did you know that hundreds of thousands of the illegal aliens from Mexico are wanted in their own country for serious crimes including murder, rape, robbery, drug trafficking and numerous other felony level crimes? Did you know that these illegals cannot go back to Mexico because they will be arrested and jailed for their crimes? Did you know that many of them are child molesters and sexual predators and they could be, and in some cases are, living near you in your community, but they do not appear on any sexual offenders registry because our government doesn't know who they are or anything about them? Did you know that most of the illegal aliens from Mexico do not want U.S. citizenship. They just want all the benefits of being here with no legal responsibilites or documentation as to who they are or how to identify them or track them down if they commit a crime. They don't want a path to citizenship, they just want our money and comforts and the ability to flee anonymously back to Mexico when they commit a crime. They do not want to learn english, they just want to invade and take over the nation. They want you to learn espanol and to surrender your American culture, language, and laws to Mexico. The least we can do is have laws that prevents more of them from coming to Wyoming. "

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